Anyone who has 'went perm', how has it been?

[LondonManc]

In IB finance perms are cut as often as contractors so no security

The perms I have worked with over the last 15 years rarely had any training so I dont buy that either

Yes time between contracts would be more nowadays for sure - But that is a holiday and it should feel like one

Rubbish on all counts.

1/ Contractors have to go first legally and are therefore far more likely to suffer a mass cull, especially when you're looking at potential contractors.

2/ You must work at some crap clients. Any client/firm that I've been perm at, I've received training at.

3/ Time between contracts is not a holiday. You book holidays during contracts for minimal business interruption, otherwise you're having to work on new contract acquisition while you're on holiday or simply unavailable for interview because you aren't anywhere near clients (or on an odd holiday).

[LondonPM1]

Rubbish on all counts.

1/ Contractors have to go first legally and are therefore far more likely to suffer a mass cull, especially when you're looking at potential contractors.

2/ You must work at some crap clients. Any client/firm that I've been perm at, I've received training at.

3/ Time between contracts is not a holiday. You book holidays during contracts for minimal business interruption, otherwise you're having to work on new contract acquisition while you're on holiday or simply unavailable for interview because you aren't anywhere near clients (or on an odd holiday).

UBS IS A GOOD EXAMPLE - They fired a ton of perms and hired contractors in 2015 onwards ....
CS are doing the same although reduction in contractors as well

Take HSBC as well - Do you not think that perms will go - The contractors might as well but its hardly 1:1 ratio

If UBS / Morgan stanley are crap then thats fine - The idea of training is doing online mandatory elearnings which remind you of business ethics and money laundering - Hardly useful

Time between contracts is a holiday

[SussexSeagull]

If a contractor is working on something mission critical it is quite conceivable they will stay on to finish it even if redundancies are happening.

[elsergiovolador]

Rubbish on all counts.

1/ Contractors have to go first legally and are therefore far more likely to suffer a mass cull, especially when you're looking at potential contractors.

2/ You must work at some crap clients. Any client/firm that I've been perm at, I've received training at.

3/ Time between contracts is not a holiday. You book holidays during contracts for minimal business interruption, otherwise you're having to work on new contract acquisition while you're on holiday or simply unavailable for interview because you aren't anywhere near clients (or on an odd holiday).

1/ If company has a problem, then first on the line are employees approaching second year of employment as this is potential liability. Company can always get rid of contractors, so they focus more on employees - which ones can be replaced by contractors.

3/ My view as well. Time between contracts can be used for research and development. It is especially important when the next year it will not be possible to make profit from providing services so companies need to diversify their revenue streams to survive.

[LondonManc]

1/ If company has a problem, then first on the line are employees approaching second year of employment as this is potential liability. Company can always get rid of contractors, so they focus more on employees - which ones can be replaced by contractors.

3/ My view as well. Time between contracts can be used for research and development. It is especially important when the next year it will not be possible to make profit from providing services so companies need to diversify their revenue streams to survive.

1/ A company cannot legally replace a permanent role with a contract role. Nice speculation though.

[WTFH]

1/ If company has a problem, then first on the line are employees approaching second year of employment as this is potential liability. Company can always get rid of contractors, so they focus more on employees - which ones can be replaced by contractors.

That's an inneresting view - you say you'd never be a permanent employee, yet you're claiming to understand that every company wants to get rid of new starts and replace them with overpriced permietractors, because in your world that saves money.

If a company has a problem, they look at how to reduce outgoings.
1. Cancel unnecessary projects
2. Get rid of contractors working on said projects
3. Get rid of the deadwood.
4. Keep on the younger staff who have demonstrated aptitude and ability, and the managers that have a proven record of good decision making.

[LondonManc]

UBS IS A GOOD EXAMPLE - They fired a ton of perms and hired contractors in 2015 onwards ....
CS are doing the same although reduction in contractors as well

Take HSBC as well - Do you not think that perms will go - The contractors might as well but its hardly 1:1 ratio

If UBS / Morgan stanley are crap then thats fine - The idea of training is doing online mandatory elearnings which remind you of business ethics and money laundering - Hardly useful

Time between contracts is a holiday

CS did nothing of the sort. CS under Thiam phased out consultants first then contractors. Some long-term contractors (who should have been perms) were also removed and they engaged in a greater level of off-shoring to Wroclaw.

At HSBC, they'll again know that contractors have to go first - it depends what roles are going. They've already stated that jobs are going; you don't have to state that contractors are being shunted because outside the contractor community nobody cares about the overpaid tax-dodgers.

[SussexSeagull]

1/ A company cannot legally replace a permanent role with a contract role. Nice speculation though.

That's incorrect. The staff made redundant aren't being replaced with new staff.

[LondonManc]

That's incorrect. The staff made redundant aren't being replaced with new staff.

Apologies, I paraphrased - not sure if it was just where I have worked when redundancies have been happening in certain areas but three times I've seen contractors have to go first before perm staff (on one occasion I was one of the contractors cut before the perms) - whether it was the manager saying that he couldn't bring me back after he'd binned the perms of for that reason or to "soften the blow", I've no idea. Either that or things have changed or it was just company policy. What is clear is that if an employer fails to consider if the number of redundancies can be reduced by terminating contractors and agency workers, it may render any subsequent redundancy dismissals unfair unless there are good business reasons for retaining their services (for example where they have a special skill that cannot be undertaken by permanent employees), or they are required to be kept on for a particular limited project.

[BritishLad88]

UBS IS A GOOD EXAMPLE - They fired a ton of perms and hired contractors in 2015 onwards ....
CS are doing the same although reduction in contractors as well

Take HSBC as well - Do you not think that perms will go - The contractors might as well but its hardly 1:1 ratio

If UBS / Morgan stanley are crap then thats fine - The idea of training is doing online mandatory elearnings which remind you of business ethics and money laundering - Hardly useful

Time between contracts is a holiday

You're right in that training is doing online mandatory elearnings; i experienced it first hand at one of my prev gigs working for an IB. That IB did offer some sort of career-related training but were only available to perms.

In general, within the finance space, you likely to find the people who directly working on an IT project regardless of your role whether you're the PM or a techie are actually mostly 'contractors' anyway. In those orgs eyes, anything IT related of some sort are considered external to the bank's main business hence they have a tendency to favour hiring 'contractors' instead of perms. I don't view them as hiring contractors to replace perms. They do hire perms but only a small % i feel. This is merely their business model.