Anyone who has 'went perm', how has it been?

[LondonManc]

You're right in that training is doing online mandatory elearnings; i experienced it first hand at one of my prev gigs working for an IB. That IB did offer some sort of career-related training but were only available to perms.

In general, within the finance space, you likely to find the people who directly working on an IT project regardless of your role whether you're the PM or a techie are actually mostly 'contractors' anyway. In those orgs eyes, anything IT related of some sort are considered external to the bank's main business hence they have a tendency to favour hiring 'contractors' instead of perms. I don't view them as hiring contractors to replace perms. They do hire perms but only a small % i feel. This is merely their business model.

As it should be, unless you're inside IR35

[BritishLad88]

What would be interesting to know is the old day rate and how many days you billed a year

And the new perm package

When the numbers are written down we often see

650 a day 230 days a year outside IR35 == 150 K plus you can dividend and wife allowance it
90K a year with a 4% pension == 60K a year after tax

Which is crazy

Ignoring VAT in this scenario (since VAT is just money passed from left to right), my last gig (2019) was a 12 month contract @ 550d and it nicely coincided with a full calendar year. I billed 226 days out of a possible 241 (261 workable days in 2019 but the bank demanded everyone to be off for a minimum 2 weeks leading up to christmas). So i oblidged reluctantly. I also had to take extra days off due to unforeseen personal events (a mini holiday demanded by wife). Wifey had a decent perm job & my accountant said its no worth it to make her my secretary to gain an advantage as they're wouldn't be much of any adv to be gained. So my total revenue was 124300£ (550*226). Subtract 19% corporation tax from that (£23617) would give my profits of £100683. My accountant's advice was take only enough ££ out to cover the min wage requirement and under the basic rate threshold. So eventually I took home pay aorund lets say £50K (min salary; rest dividends) leaving 60K in the business bank. I put £12K/year into my pension treating it as expense to get the CT a bit down - so that leaves 48-ishK left in my business-bank.

I took a 80K salary job. 90K+ plus roles are for leaders role & 100K+ roles are reserved for execs which I'm not, i'm just an individual contributer so 80K is pretty much top end for me. 150K+ roles I just haven't seen at all. Not sure if that's realistic at all tbh. I pay in 7.5% pension & my company will match it 15% taking total combined 22% contribution. Not bad. (company is giving me £12K free money into my pension pot). 10% guaranteed bonus follows (so that's an extra £8K, okay, subtracting tax from that yields around £5K ish). On top of that standard 25 holiday pay & sick pay. Holiday Pay Calculator | CharlieHR | HR Software says if I don't take my holidays, they're worth around 7.5K. Finally, all the usual perks & discounts thats get offered to me:

- life insurance cover (previously i was paying relevant life insurance from my ltd company so my premiums came from my own pot of money in my business bank account)
- general discounts to restuarants, cinemas (yes, current climate not useful these but when situation gets better i'm sure they would of be good use)
- etc

All in all, my total perm package equates to roughly about just over 110K in value. And now I take home after tax £4500 roughly per month (not much different than before when i contract). All my taxes are sorted out at the moment giving me peace of mind. No more self assessments and paying on accounts some 18 months after. Bear in mind, my previous outside IR35 role; I had to source my own pension from my own pot, no holiday-sick pay, no perks & discounts, no bonus etc.

so taking that into consideration, if you compare that (the whole package! from both sides) it sort of works out the same-ish...

So that is why I said I felt my perm job sort of matches roughly to what I was earning before (i know its maybe still a bit way off but then again, as we're all been saying; we're not comparing apples with apples). But given current climate, i felt it was best thing to do, using the time to upskill where I can then revert to contracting in future if it ever does gets better.

[LondonManc]

Nice post BL88.

Certainly explains that everything is not cut and dried - I also suspect that HMRC would question any allocation to your wife; given that she's got a decent perm job, it would be seen as a tax evasion/avoidance vehicle and you'd get stung for it. The big thing that you've missed is that the limited company has c.40k retained profits but, as you allude to, that's a warchest for times like these so that you can afford to sit it out or would sustain you if you took on a £300/day 3-month contract simply to keep your skills in use.

[NotAllThere]

If UBS / Morgan stanley are crap then thats fine - The idea of training is doing online mandatory elearnings which remind you of business ethics and money laundering - Hardly useful

The banking sector as a whole are not renowned for being amazing employers. Other sectors are available.

[DimPrawn]

I think I can sum this all up as:

A great perm job is better than a tulip or no contract
A great contract role is better than a permie role.


If it's a toss up between a tulip perm role and a tulip contract, I'd take the contract.

[LondonManc]

I think I can sum this all up as:

A great perm job is better than a tulip or no contract
A great contract role is better than a permie role.


If it's a toss up between a tulip perm role and a tulip contract, I'd take the contract.

I'd also offer the thought that if you're a contractor, you're a contractor; take the contract.
If you're feeling like your skillset is becoming niche, bite the bullet, go perm for a few years to reskill then go contracting with your new skill. Or get your own ltd to pay for your (relevant) training, or even pay for it yourself.

[rootsnall]

The banking sector as a whole are not renowned for being amazing employers. Other sectors are available.

I found the banking sector just a horrible place to work fullstop, I wormed my way in but then wormed my way back out asap.

Yes good post BritishLad88. If you are still at the stage of having money worries then I'd be going Perm. In the 90s you could earn double, maybe even triple what your permie Team Lead was on and no IR35 worries. Once it's getting to paying almost the same and possibly worse if you are forced to pay full NI then.....

[heyya99]

I found the banking sector just a horrible place to work fullstop, I wormed my way in but then wormed my way back out asap.

What made it horrible?

[rootsnall]

What made it horrible?

This was investment banking, and I was contracting, pretty ruthless environment with stressed permie managers at their desks 8-6 minimum and watching you like hawks. Just not a nice place to work, no laughs allowed.

[ladymuck]

I've not heard anything good about contracting in IB. If you're not part of the old boy's club, it can be very much a bunch of snarky insiders who will obstruct you at every turn. Yeah the pay can be excellent but be prepared to have no life and be treated like tulip.

By contrast, retail banking can be ok if you're in the right team with decent management support but they have no money so everything is stuck together with sticky tape and bluetac.