Anyone who has 'went perm', how has it been?

[Old Greg]

Or 30 days holiday + bank holidays




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30 days holiday + bank holidays would be accounted for if you did a fair comparison with contracting, which is not, IMO, typically 230 days billed per year. I am likely to bill > 230 days this year, but this will be an exceptional year for me (I'm looking at 147 days billed in first 6 months ). Normally I bill 215 to 220 days, and I'm something of a permitractor (4 years in one contract), so don't have to take into account gaps between contracts.

[LondonManc]

What would be interesting to know is the old day rate and how many days you billed a year

And the new perm package

When the numbers are written down we often see

650 a day 230 days a year outside IR35 == 150 K plus you can dividend and wife allowance it
90K a year with a 4% pension == 60K a year after tax

Which is crazy

You cannot budget ideal world. You have to budget realistic. If your market is slowly getting worse (IR35, Brexit, changing skills requirements, etc. not including COVID19) you also have to consider how much could you realistically keep billing.

For example, a traditional PM may have to bite the bullet for a few years and cross-train up to become a qualified scrum master. If a company is going by the book with scrum or kanban rather than playing at agile, you'd find yourself out of your depth and out the door quite quickly as a contract PM trying to blag your way as a PM. If they're using "Agile-ish", you'd probably be OK.

[Old Greg]

If you think having a dull sockie will save you money...

FTFY

[LondonPM1]

You cannot budget ideal world. You have to budget realistic. If your market is slowly getting worse (IR35, Brexit, changing skills requirements, etc. not including COVID19) you also have to consider how much could you realistically keep billing.

For example, a traditional PM may have to bite the bullet for a few years and cross-train up to become a qualified scrum master. If a company is going by the book with scrum or kanban rather than playing at agile, you'd find yourself out of your depth and out the door quite quickly as a contract PM trying to blag your way as a PM. If they're using "Agile-ish", you'd probably be OK.

But if you have three months holiday between contracts that surely is a massive benefit - Why work for twelve months when take home pay is the same for 9 months work

And sick pay - Not many take it - You cant just call up sic when you feel like you need a duvet day

I m not convinced at all that 90K is anywhere close to 650 a day - I ve said it before 650 per day outside IR35 is 150K perm take home pay

[Old Greg]

But if you have three months holiday between contracts that surely is a massive benefit - Why work for twelve months when take home pay is the same for 9 months work

And sick pay - Not many take it - You cant just call up sic when you feel like you need a duvet day

I m not convinced at all that 90K is anywhere close to 650 a day - I ve said it before 650 per day outside IR35 is 150K perm take home pay

I agree that 90k is not close to 650 pd, but your calculations skew them somewhat unfairly in favour of the 650 pd.

As for sick pay, people do actually get sick.

[SussexSeagull]

I think we all need to accept that while the norm used to be weeks between contracts (or better) it can quite easily be months now. Throw in three out of my last four contracts have been terminated early due to the project being pulled or heavily scaled down then the new norm might be looking for something twice a year as opposed to once.

[Old Greg]

I think we all need to accept that while the norm used to be weeks between contracts (or better) it can quite easily be months now. Throw in three out of my last four contracts have been terminated early due to the project being pulled or heavily scaled down then the new norm might be looking for something twice a year as opposed to once.

So any comparison needs weighting in a couple or areas:

1. Risks of early termination and gaps in work
2. Likely salary progression vs likely rate stagnation.

I still thing 650 pd outside IR35 is better than 90k p.a., but it's closer than LondonPM1 makes out.

[LondonManc]

But if you have three months holiday between contracts that surely is a massive benefit - Why work for twelve months when take home pay is the same for 9 months work

And sick pay - Not many take it - You cant just call up sic when you feel like you need a duvet day

I m not convinced at all that 90K is anywhere close to 650 a day - I ve said it before 650 per day outside IR35 is 150K perm take home pay

If you have 3 months out, you won't book 230 days. You cannot twist it both ways.

[Old Greg]

If you have 3 months out, you won't book 230 days. You cannot twist it both ways.

And a three month gap between contracts doesn't typically feel like a three month holiday.

[ladymuck]

And a three month gap between contracts doesn't typically feel like a three month holiday.

And I suspect many of us have planned 4 - 6 weeks between contracts and discovered it stretched to 12 weeks when opportunities plummeted. As you say, if you're out of contract because you can't find the next one, it's not a nice time.

Does the 650 pd vs 90 k factor in training?