QDOS Contract failed CEST online test - where did I go wrong?

[bigrob]

Hi all,

Apologies if this has been asked before, I've had a quick scan and souldn't find anything suitable.

I've just been through the CEST with a new client today after they've agreed to use the QDOS contract for a direct engagement and the outcome was "Unable to make a Determination". I was under the impression that as long as the Substitution was accepted then it was ok?

Here's the result, would e grateful if someone could take the time to quickly look over the result and let me know where I may have messed up?

Thanks in advance...


Who are you? Worker
What do you want to do? Make a new determination
Are you trading through a limited company, partnership or unincorporated body? Ltd Company
Have you already started working for this client? No
Will you be an ‘Office Holder’? No
Does your client have the right to reject a substitute? Yes
Does your client have the right to move you from the task you originally agreed to do? No, that would require a new contract or formal

working arrangement
Does your client have the right to decide how the work is done? No, you and your client agree together
Does your client have the right to decide your working hours? No, the work is based on agreed deadlines
Does your client have the right to decide where you do the work? No, some work has to be done in an agreed location and some can be your choice


Will you have to buy equipment before your client pays you? No
Will you have to fund any vehicle costs before your client pays you? No
Will you have to buy materials before your client pays you? No
Will you have to fund any other costs before your client pays you? No
How will you be paid for this work? An hourly, daily or weekly rate
If the client was not happy with your work, would you have to put it right? Yes, unpaid and you would have extra costs that your client would not pay for
Will your client provide you with paid-for corporate benefits? No
Will you have any management responsibilities for your client? No
How would you introduce yourself to your client’s consumers or suppliers? You are an independent worker acting on your

Does this contract stop you from doing similar work for other clients? No
Are you required to ask permission to work for other clients? No
Are there any ownership rights relating to this contract? No
Have you had a previous contract with this client? No
Is the current contract the first in a series of contracts agreed with this client? No
Does the current contract allow for it to be extended? Yes
Will this work take up the majority of your available working time? Yes
Have you done any self-employed work of a similar nature for other clients in the last 12 months? Yes

[malvolio]

I would guess the "right to reject a substitute" answer is the culprit. If such right is only conditional on clearly stated grounds surrounding experience and expertise, the it should be a pass.

Not knowing CEST, I don't know the alternative answers available of course, but I'm told a clear RoS usually results in an immediate pass.

[LondonManc]

Hi all,

Apologies if this has been asked before, I've had a quick scan and souldn't find anything suitable.

I've just been through the CEST with a new client today after they've agreed to use the QDOS contract for a direct engagement and the outcome was "Unable to make a Determination". I was under the impression that as long as the Substitution was accepted then it was ok?

Here's the result, would e grateful if someone could take the time to quickly look over the result and let me know where I may have messed up?

Thanks in advance...


Who are you? Worker
What do you want to do? Make a new determination
Are you trading through a limited company, partnership or unincorporated body? Ltd Company
Have you already started working for this client? No
Will you be an ‘Office Holder’? No
Does your client have the right to reject a substitute? Yes
Does your client have the right to move you from the task you originally agreed to do? No, that would require a new contract or formal

working arrangement
Does your client have the right to decide how the work is done? No, you and your client agree together
Does your client have the right to decide your working hours? No, the work is based on agreed deadlines
Does your client have the right to decide where you do the work? No, some work has to be done in an agreed location and some can be your choice


Will you have to buy equipment before your client pays you? No
Will you have to fund any vehicle costs before your client pays you? No
Will you have to buy materials before your client pays you? No
Will you have to fund any other costs before your client pays you? No
How will you be paid for this work? An hourly, daily or weekly rate
If the client was not happy with your work, would you have to put it right? Yes, unpaid and you would have extra costs that your client would not pay for
Will your client provide you with paid-for corporate benefits? No
Will you have any management responsibilities for your client? No
How would you introduce yourself to your client’s consumers or suppliers? You are an independent worker acting on your

Does this contract stop you from doing similar work for other clients? No
Are you required to ask permission to work for other clients? No
Are there any ownership rights relating to this contract? No
Have you had a previous contract with this client? No
Is the current contract the first in a series of contracts agreed with this client? No
Does the current contract allow for it to be extended? Yes
Will this work take up the majority of your available working time? Yes
Have you done any self-employed work of a similar nature for other clients in the last 12 months? Yes

So you have no travel, food or similar costs that you will incur as part of working for the client before you get paid by them?
I (based on general contracting experience) think that the answers that you have put are incorrect to the questions that I have highlighted in bold above.

[malvolio]

So you have no travel, food or similar costs that you will incur as part of working for the client before you get paid by them?
I (based on general contracting experience) think that the answers that you have put are incorrect to the questions that I have highlighted in bold above.

And I wouldn't. A business will already have all that in place.

[LondonManc]

And I wouldn't. A business will already have all that in place.

Not with you - are you suggesting that a contract that you cannot walk to would not incur costs? As in the cost of getting to destination, etc.?

[malvolio]

Not with you - are you suggesting that a contract that you cannot walk to would not incur costs? As in the cost of getting to destination, etc.?

Of course it involves costs. They are not normally a client liability, and would be factored into your rate anyway.

[simes]

I would guess the "right to reject a substitute" answer is the culprit. If such right is only conditional on clearly stated grounds surrounding experience and expertise, the it should be a pass.

Not knowing CEST, I don't know the alternative answers available of course, but I'm told a clear RoS usually results in an immediate pass.

Nope - I have already game-played that scenario and having answered that the client Can reject a substitute, I was still found Outside.

I believe for this one, I answered Yes.

"Will you have to fund any other costs before your client pays you?" Travel, flights, hotels etc...?

[jamesbrown]

This factor alone will do it, IIRC (based on your other input):

working arrangement
Does your client have the right to decide how the work is done? No, you and your client agree together

Unless you are dictating how the work is done (the methodology, not the outcomes), then I think you won't get the sufficient pass w/r to control.

It's completely arguable, of course, but we know CEST is biased. If you change that (to you decide alone), I bet you'll get a pass.

[northernladuk]

This factor alone will do it, IIRC (based on your other input):



Unless you are dictating how the work is done (the methodology, not the outcomes), then I think you won't get the sufficient pass w/r to control.

It's completely arguable, of course, but we know CEST is biased. If you change that (to you decide alone), I bet you'll get a pass.

But 90 odd percent of people will answer this incorrectly in HMRCs eyes. Remember back in the day the examples HMRC gave. There was the PM lady and the hospital where she showed up occasionally and delivered what they wanted. This is what HMRC will be after.

Us saying we will sit at clients desk using their methods, process and paperwork think we decide what and how we do it isnt really a comparison to the example. Most of us will be just kidding ourselves. We will mistake flexibility and autonomy (that the permies also have) for us being able to dictate when and where.

[jamesbrown]

But 90 odd percent of people will answer this incorrectly in HMRCs eyes. Remember back in the day the examples HMRC gave. There was the PM lady and the hospital where she showed up occasionally and delivered what they wanted. This is what HMRC will be after.

Us saying we will sit at clients desk using their methods, process and paperwork think we decide what and how we do it isnt really a comparison to the example. Most of us will be just kidding ourselves. We will mistake flexibility and autonomy (that the permies also have) for us being able to dictate when and where.

Right, most BoS contractors will be following methods imposed by the client, at least to some degree.

When and where are really straightforward and unrelated to how. Either you mostly dictate the working times (meetings accepted) and you dictate the locations/s or you don't (most contractors cannot say they do).

How is trickier, but contractors brought in to show a client how to do things should be fine (again, not a majority). The main issue, as I see it, is that the space between dictating "how" and being an expert and, hence, control being less important overall is a pretty narrow space.

Personally, I have no problems in answering all control questions without encumbrances, but none of my clients are based in the UK. YMMV. I am simply describing a point of sensitivity in the CEST, not recommending anything.