QDOS Contract failed CEST online test - where did I go wrong?

[mudskipper]

Where is the spreadsheet mudskipper posted a few weeks ago?


Sent from my iPhone using Contractor UK Forum

CEST matrix - Google Sheets

[Manic]

So I'm correct in saying that the OP would have to incur costs before they are paid by the client then?

I think the point of those questions is to help demonstrate financial risk, e.g. shelling out on a month's worth of accommodation and travel only to find out you don't get paid because they've used you for a month's free consultancy and good luck getting the money off them

Wooah hold on a minute. Check the wording.

Will you have to fund any other costs before your client pays you?
Worker’s financial risk
This can include non-commuting travel or accommodation, or external business premises for this work only.

[malvolio]

Wooah hold on a minute. Check the wording.

Will you have to fund any other costs before your client pays you?
Worker’s financial risk
This can include non-commuting travel or accommodation, or external business premises for this work only.

Beautifully inexact as ever...

"Non-commuting" is dependent on whether or not the gig is inside or outside IR35: inside means it is commuting, outside means it isn't...

What I think they are asking is "Have you add to pony up for materials, (in the widest sense) or equipment or tools or premises or relocation costs specifically to undertake this particular engagement". Since most of us already have working resources, the answer is probably no, but if you have to buy a particular toolset such as a specific compiler or something, then the answer would be yes. Where that leads the CEST decision is a whole other question...

However I still would argue that out here in the real world and not HMRC's Neverneverland that any operating business will have a contingency for such overhead costs and will aim to recover them from their fees. As such they are not intrinsic to one engagement but rather as a cost of doing business. Obviously that is my interpretation, others may well treat each gig as a separate financial transaction in its entirety.

[bigrob]

I just went through the test again but changed the substitution answer to "Client will accept the substitute if suitably qualified etc." and it passed.

Why you are getting this result
Your answers told us:
your client has accepted, or would accept, a substitute
you or your business will have to fund costs before your client pays you
This suggests you are working on a business to business basis.

Thanks for the help and advice all.

[dsc]

Beautifully inexact as ever...

"Non-commuting" is dependent on whether or not the gig is inside or outside IR35: inside means it is commuting, outside means it isn't...

What I think they are asking is "Have you add to pony up for materials, (in the widest sense) or equipment or tools or premises or relocation costs specifically to undertake this particular engagement". Since most of us already have working resources, the answer is probably no, but if you have to buy a particular toolset such as a specific compiler or something, then the answer would be yes. Where that leads the CEST decision is a whole other question...

However I still would argue that out here in the real world and not HMRC's Neverneverland that any operating business will have a contingency for such overhead costs and will aim to recover them from their fees. As such they are not intrinsic to one engagement but rather as a cost of doing business. Obviously that is my interpretation, others may well treat each gig as a separate financial transaction in its entirety.

Isn't this about whether you pay for whatever "tools" you need or if they are simply supplied by your client? the latter would of course push you more into "inside" determination, although I'd argue here as most projects "provide" all the kit as it's part of the release when the job is done.

[malvolio]

I just went through the test again but changed the substitution answer to "Client will accept the substitute if suitably qualified etc." and it passed.

Why you are getting this result
Your answers told us:
your client has accepted, or would accept, a substitute
you or your business will have to fund costs before your client pays you
This suggests you are working on a business to business basis.

Thanks for the help and advice all.

Good news and well done. Others take note...

[Manic]

Good news and well done. Others take note...

I just went through the test again but changed the substitution answer to "Client will accept the substitute if suitably qualified etc." and it passed.

Why you are getting this result
Your answers told us:
your client has accepted, or would accept, a substitute
you or your business will have to fund costs before your client pays you
This suggests you are working on a business to business basis.

Thanks for the help and advice all.

Assuming client agrees to the unfettered right of substitution of course.

[northernladuk]

All well and good when on boarding you. I wonder what they would really say when you pull it.

Do they really understand what is involved and do you. How do you think providing a substitute works. Might sound daft but all bet a vast majority of contractors don't get it.

[malvolio]

Assuming client agrees to the unfettered right of substitution of course.

Well yes, stating the bleedin' obvious. If the reality doesn't match the results, HMRC will disregard CEST anyway.

[malvolio]

All well and good when on boarding you. I wonder what they would really say when you pull it.

Do they really understand what is involved and do you. How do you think providing a substitute works. Might sound daft but all bet a vast majority of contractors don't get it.

And for those that don't, this post was made recently