BT - IR35

[sal]

The main reason they backed down is that the private sector was there as an escape valve and all the decent public sector contractors jumped ship. That isn't there anymore, there is no hiding place and with the market in the crapper with Brexit the downward pressure on rates and assessments is high.

There will be a fundamental shift in contracting, time will tell if there is a viable market for PSC contracting post April or not.

But the escape valve is there, just at a slightly smaller scale. There is well established public sector outside IR35 roles market and there will be plenty of private sectors companies making the effort.

It is survival of the fittest.

[simes]

Completely agreed with this last.

Those that do require the best, will make the effort. And as soon as the first is seen to make that effort, in exactly the same way as the banks have all been following each other of late, so too will there be a wake of movement the other way.

Hang in there, is my mantra.

[PCTNN]

Absolutely, a case by case determination is much better and more fair than a blanket assessment.

Having said that, the change will not be as massive as people think.

Permietractors will be always be permietractors; if now they are blanket assessed inside ir35, in the future they will be personally assessed inside ir35. And, from my experience, the VAST majority of contractors I've worked with were just employees in disguise (like, 9 in 10).

Anyways, good for that remaining 10%, I guess.

[OrangeSquash]

Permietractors will be always be permietractors; if now they are blanket assessed inside ir35, in the future they will be personally assessed inside ir35. And, from my experience, the VAST majority of contractors I've worked with were just employees in disguise (like, 9 in 10).

Imagine the frustration at HMRC. 90% of contractors are just "employees in disguise" and yet the VAST majority of IR35 cases they've taken to court have been lost. Or maybe case law doesn't support your numbers.

[Lance]

Imagine the frustration at HMRC. 90% of contractors are just "employees in disguise" and yet the VAST majority of IR35 cases they've taken to court have been lost. Or maybe case law doesn't support your numbers.

maybe the number that go to court aren't representative of HMRCs investigations, nor their success rate ?

[PCTNN]

Imagine the frustration at HMRC. 90% of contractors are just "employees in disguise" and yet the VAST majority of IR35 cases they've taken to court have been lost. Or maybe case law doesn't support your numbers.

you go to court if you know you have a chance to win.

contractors won't go to court if they know they can't win (because, of course, they all realise if they are employees in disguise), so the number of ir35 cases that hmrc have lost in court is a metric as useless as your comment.

[OrangeSquash]

you go to court if you know you have a chance to win.

contractors won't go to court if they know they can't win (because, of course, they all realise if they are employees in disguise), so the number of ir35 cases that hmrc have lost in court is a metric as useless as your comment.

I don't agree. If 9 out of 10 contractors were "employees in disguise" in a way that would stand up to scrutiny (as opposed to your arbitrary view) then HMRC would have cleaned up a long time ago.

[Lance]

I don't agree. If 9 out of 10 contractors were "employees in disguise" in a way that would stand up to scrutiny (as opposed to your arbitrary view) then HMRC would have cleaned up a long time ago.

how so?

HMRC only have so many staff. They can only investigate so many contractors.
If there are say 1.5m contractors worthy of an investigation, and 20,000 HMRC investiagtors (there's no way near that number), and it takes 3 months to investigate, and only one HMRC staff member to complete an investigation........

In one year they can investigate just 5,000 cases.
It will take 300 years to complete the investigations.

So clean up they might do, but not 'a long time ago'......

[ladymuck]

We don't often hear about the people who get investigated, found to owe some cash, and quietly pay up. We hear about the ones who went to court and lost but not the outcomes of all investigations.

[Lance]

We don't often hear about the people who get investigated, found to owe some cash, and quietly pay up. We hear about the ones who went to court and lost but not the outcomes of all investigations.

and if insured QDOS/whoever may well just cough up and not fight it. Leaving the contractor no worse off (up to £50k I think) and nothing newsworthy to hear about.