Barclays forcing all contractors to go PAYE by February 2020

[Bluenose]

Probably worth noting that for each one of these, another company's silence may mean that they're going to use the legislation as intentended (possibly the wrong term, "properly") and actually make roles outside of IR35

After all, if they are now, then they should be in 2020, right?

It is a political power play by the U.K based banks (the timing has been placed to perfection to make the most impact) to give them a political and guilt free hand to complete the transition to Off-shore, near-shore labour.

i.e. we can't find anyone who will work for X amount hence we need to get an Indian in.

Does anyone here want to work for £500/600/700pd inside IR35 with no additional benefits and be onsite every day, 5 days per week until 8.30am till 6pm ?

Worst of both worlds but the Indian outsourcers will do it.

[Snooky]

It is a political power play by the U.K based banks (the timing has been placed to perfection to make the most impact) to give them a political and guilt free hand to complete the transition to Off-shore, near-shore labour.

i.e. we can't find anyone who will work for X amount hence we need to get a Bob in.

Do you really think banks have the slightest sense of guilt about these things? Absolutely the only reason ALL work isn't shipped off to some much cheaper offshore outfit is because the cost-benefit isn't quite right or the job can only be done in country.

The only reason any roles which could be offshored haven't been offshored is that the management don't think the cost savings outweigh the risk and effort of doing it by a large enough margin. Yet.

[Bluenose]

Do you really think banks have the slightest sense of guilt about these things? Absolutely the only reason ALL work isn't shipped off to some much cheaper offshore outfit is because the cost-benefit isn't quite right or the job can only be done in country.

The only reason any roles which could be offshored haven't been offshored is that the management don't think the cost savings outweigh the risk and effort of doing it by a large enough margin. Yet.

Having guilt and being exonerated in the public court of opinion of needing to have a conscience about such a decision are separate things.

The risk appetite for this item set by the FCA and Internal Audit within the banks will be reviewed as the game is going to change because, they may present the item for decision as not having many options which include using onshore brits because 'we can't afford them any more'.

[simes]

…….exonerated in the public court of opinion of needing...…

….court of public opinion....

[Bluenose]

….court of public opinion....

sure, if it becomes an Indian entity with a British banking license then the business will not last long.

These things don't happen overnight, it will be a slow burn.

[PerfectStorm]

It is a political power play by the U.K based banks (the timing has been placed to perfection to make the most impact) to give them a political and guilt free hand to complete the transition to Off-shore, near-shore labour.

i.e. we can't find anyone who will work for X amount hence we need to get an Indian in.

Does anyone here want to work for £500/600/700pd inside IR35 with no additional benefits and be onsite every day, 5 days per week until 8.30am till 6pm ?

Worst of both worlds but the Indian outsourcers will do it.

There’s no obligation for PAYE roles to have set hours or no remote working. I think you may have the wrong end of the stick

And 65% of those roles (rough PAYE) is £325/£390/£455 take home which would be consistent with many current out-of-IR35 rates

[mogga71]

This is not making much sense as its the direct opposite of what I am hearing is happening.

Many (I would guess hundreds) of contractors at HSBC who were with Resource Solutions are presently being converted over to Mansion House Consultancy who are going to allow their contractors to remain outside of IR35. No rate cut. Only real change is Project based and approx monthly invoicing. MH said at one of their contractor meetings that they realise that all of the risk is now on them but they have have serious legal guidance and are practically certain it will work.

At the meeting they categorically stated that contractors at Barclays are doing exactly the same.

[ContractorHardman]

This is not making much sense as its the direct opposite of what I am hearing is happening.

Many (I would guess hundreds) of contractors at HSBC who were with Resource Solutions are presently being converted over to Mansion House Consultancy who are going to allow their contractors to remain outside of IR35. No rate cut. Only real change is Project based and approx monthly invoicing. MH said at one of their contractor meetings that they realise that all of the risk is now on them but they have have serious legal guidance and are practically certain it will work.

At the meeting they categorically stated that contractors at Barclays are doing exactly the same.

I did wonder where MHC had come from. Now it all makes sense!

[Paralytic]

This is not making much sense as its the direct opposite of what I am hearing is happening.

Many (I would guess hundreds) of contractors at HSBC who were with Resource Solutions are presently being converted over to Mansion House Consultancy who are going to allow their contractors to remain outside of IR35. No rate cut. Only real change is Project based and approx monthly invoicing. MH said at one of their contractor meetings that they realise that all of the risk is now on them but they have have serious legal guidance and are practically certain it will work.

At the meeting they categorically stated that contractors at Barclays are doing exactly the same.

So are the contractors client in this scenario actually Mansion House, who then sub-contracts to the end client via, eg, a managed service.

Have you seen such a contract? Does it indemnify MH for any future IR35 related taxes, at the expense of the contractor?

[mogga71]

So are the contractors client in this scenario actually Mansion House, who then sub-contracts to the end client via, eg, a managed service.

Have you seen such a contract? Does it indemnify MH for any future IR35 related taxes, at the expense of the contractor?

The contracts are with Mansion House .... no mention of HSBC at all. I know this because it was mentioned at the meeting.

I highly doubt that a contract would say that the contractor is up for tax if the IR come knocking. As I said, MH emphasised that all of the risk is with them.

2 points would be worth asking:

1. Has HSBC declared that they see these contractors as being outside IR35? Note that the workers will still have to work at HSBC premises.
2. Can MH supply a legally binding document that states that the contractor is outside of IR35 and should the contractors be investigated by IR and found to be inside, then MH will pay the owed tax, fines etc.

My personal thoughts on this is that MH are actually wrong and the IR will come down on them like a tonne of bricks. I believe that it's simply being used as a smoke screen and the work that the contractors do will have little resemblance to the what the Project work on the contract states. I think that if the contractors could work at home or from MH premises then it would stand a better chance of working. The 'sent' workers issue is a big Red Flag in my mind.