Consultancies providing services to pulbic sector and contractors....

[MrMarkyMark]

One other thing - how is this going to work? Come March Im going to want to know one way or the other how Im going to be seen. Obviously, huge difference in take home pay here. In current gig, it'll be a no thanks.

I can't see how an agency can offer a contract saying £x per day and then in a few weeks time say, sorry we've taken the tax and NI out so heres half of it. It just doesnt work like that.

Personally, Im going to need something in writing BEFORE a contract so I know which way its going to go.

Well, if you remain in PS doing your sort of work, expect to be ball deep inside, come next April.

[northernladuk]

The day rate is the day rate, like gross of tax. Just like it is now and like permie wages. When you join a job on 15k they don't tell you your take home. Nothing has changed. All you will have to do is ask for a breakdown or use an online calculator.

Surely having it in writing is the contract? I am certain they will change the wording to suit the new system but I don't think it's going to have your net rates and taxes detailed. I'm sure they can tell you if you ask.

And for now you know what you will be. Inside.

Are you with a PS client now?

[BlasterBates]

I would say it depends on what budget you're on. If you are on the public service budget specifically as a supply resource you would be subject to the new IR35 rules, if the supplier has control over the budget you are working for the supplier, eg the Contractor builds a wing in a new hospital, the brick layers are paid by the supplier not the NHS or for example if a consultancy is given a budget to build a new system you work for the consultancy, however if the consultancy hires you out to the public service organisation and your name appears on the bill you're effectively hired out to the PS and subject to the new IR35 rules. That's how I would interpret it. At the end of the day the inspector will be looking at invoices with the name of a person and hours billed, not an invoice for the supply of a new system.

[psychocandy]

The day rate is the day rate, like gross of tax. Just like it is now and like permie wages. When you join a job on 15k they don't tell you your take home. Nothing has changed. All you will have to do is ask for a breakdown or use an online calculator.

Surely having it in writing is the contract? I am certain they will change the wording to suit the new system but I don't think it's going to have your net rates and taxes detailed. I'm sure they can tell you if you ask.

And for now you know what you will be. Inside.

Are you with a PS client now?

Yes via a consultancy company

[eek]

Yes via a consultancy company

And who is managing the project deliveries? or are you a bum on seat doing business as usual work alongside end client permies...

[psychocandy]

I would say it depends on what budget you're on. If you are on the public service budget specifically as a supply resource you would be subject to the new IR35 rules, if the supplier has control over the budget you are working for the supplier, eg the Contractor builds a wing in a new hospital, the brick layers are paid by the supplier not the NHS or for example if a consultancy is given a budget to build a new system you work for the consultancy, however if the consultancy hires you out to the public service organisation and your name appears on the bill you're effectively hired out to the PS and subject to the new IR35 rules. That's how I would interpret it. At the end of the day the inspector will be looking at invoices with the name of a person and hours billed, not an invoice for the supply of a new system.

EXACTLY. As far as I know PS A pays Consultancy B for support services x days per week between the hours of 8-6 say. Say £500k per year. And thats it. Nowhere does it say psychocandy will be onsite. In fact, if and when I do project work the end client gets billed extra but they get billed at a rate for a role i.e. 10 hours senior support consultant etc.

Of course, the client knows who on site from the consultancy but thats it. After all they need access to client site. But when someone leaves like a contractor, consultancy tells client x is no longer going to be here. Or y is new to the team. Just a courtesy/access thing.

[psychocandy]

And who is managing the project deliveries? or are you a bum on seat doing business as usual work alongside end client permies...

Nope. All IT is outsourced to the consultancy. They have permies and contractors inc pm's on their customers site.

[MrMarkyMark]

EXACTLY. As far as I know PS A pays Consultancy B for support services x days per week between the hours of 8-6 say. Say £500k per year. And thats it. Nowhere does it say psychocandy will be onsite. In fact, if and when I do project work the end client gets billed extra but they get billed at a rate for a role i.e. 10 hours senior support consultant etc.

Of course, the client knows who on site from the consultancy but thats it. After all they need access to client site. But when someone leaves like a contractor, consultancy tells client x is no longer going to be here. Or y is new to the team. Just a courtesy/access thing.

Grasp at all the straws you want, the reality and supporting documentation tell a far different story.
The consultancy, providing a project service and hiring contractors to resource was all covered in there, as inside.

[northernladuk]

In fact, if and when I do project work the end client gets billed extra but they get billed at a rate for a role i.e. 10 hours senior support consultant .

That would indicate you are carrying out a role that you weren't contracted to do, which we already know to be fair. You are inside already so not sure why any of these changes will affect you except someone else is paying the correct amount of tax which you currently aren't.

So you are in a grey area which might get looked at imperial which then exposes the fact you are already in detail regardless of the new legislation. Slam dunk for HMRC. I'd be very worried if I were you.

There is also an example which covers a consultancy supplying bodies to a client and they are deemed within scope of the legislation anyway so I'd say you ain't in the clear yet.

[MrMarkyMark]

That would indicate you are carrying out a role that you weren't contracted to do, which we already know to be fair. You are inside already so not sure why any of these changes will affect you except someone else is paying the correct amount of tax which you currently aren't.

I would suggest he stops Stevie Wondering and starts to understand the facts, so he is under no illusion come April.