Consultancies providing services to pulbic sector and contractors....

[northernladuk]

Contractor is on 500 pd
Consultancy charges 1000 pd to PS client

Which one is the contractors money that HMRC think he's not paying the correct tax on?

Surely the consultancy should be hit at the 1000 pd as a 'salary' if the contractor is deemed inside IR35?

How when the rate to agency has absolutely nothing to do with the contractor?

Same if the contractor is actually an employee of the consultancy but doing a client end BAU role. Surely the IR35 hit should be based on what the client pays, and not how much the employee gets?
.

WTF? The employee is already paying the tax so is out of scope... And he wouldn't be a contractor.

I'd not have any more beers if I were you.

[MrMarkyMark]

Grasp at all the straws you want, the reality and supporting documentation tell a far different story.
The consultancy, providing a project service and hiring contractors to resource was all covered in there, as inside.

I'm going to have a big slice of humble pie, it seems that not all consultancy work staffed by contractors will be deemed inside.

The guidance notes we received before stated it was covered. Obviously there is a caveat, quoted below.

And no, private sector companies providing consultancy and/or outsourcing services directly into the public sector are not caught by the changes.

However, we are aware of the problem that arises with some consultancies/outsourcers in deciding if they are acting as a consultancy, or really acting no differently to an agency/employment business in the contracting relationship.

Contractors' Questions: Are consultancies inside April’s IR35 rule change? :: Contractor UK

[northernladuk]

I'm going to have a big slice of humble pie, it seems that not all consultancy work staffed by contractors will be deemed inside.

The guidance notes we received before stated it was covered. Obviously there is a caveat, quoted below.



Contractors' Questions: Are consultancies inside April’s IR35 rule change? :: Contractor UK

I don't think you need to go as far as humble pie. I don't think anyone thinks it's a blanket get out and the devil is definitely in the details. As the article states there are consultancies that might start out offering a managed service and then end up body shopping.

[eek]

I'm going to have a big slice of humble pie, it seems that not all consultancy work staffed by contractors will be deemed inside.

The guidance notes we received before stated it was covered. Obviously there is a caveat, quoted below.



Contractors' Questions: Are consultancies inside April’s IR35 rule change? :: Contractor UK

It's remarkable how we always end back to exactly what CUK came up with in 2015.... Project based work outside, business as usual inside the issue is how do you prove to someone looking at the business from the outside that its a proper one off project....

And as I've already stated twice to PC your business practices scream inside IR35. Mine being a one off project - should be outside but I'm not taking the risk...

[northernladuk]

It's remarkable how we always end back to exactly what CUK came up with in 2015.... Project based work outside, business as usual inside the issue is how do you prove to someone looking at the business from the outside that its a proper one off project....

But that's pretty ambiguous isn't it. A contractor PM can think he's doing project work alongside permie PMs but the reality he's a bum on a seat still. It's not even as clear as that now.

[MrMarkyMark]

I don't think you need to go as far as humble pie. I don't think anyone thinks it's a blanket get out and the devil is definitely in the details. As the article states there are consultancies that might start out offering a managed service and then end up body shopping.

Strange how this was changed, though, as it was definitely in the initial guidance notes, I remember it very well.

I suspect that various top people at the consultancies went spare at the thought of them being included in this, so it was dropped.
I always knew the consultancy body shopping element would be hit and included, though.

[eek]

Strange how this was changed, though, as it was definitely in the initial guidance notes, I remember it very well.

I suspect that various top people at the consultancies went spare at the thought of them being included in this, so it was dropped.
I always knew the consultancy body shopping element would be hit and included, though.

It was a badly phrased example which didn't cover project based work. It was just 5 consulting / contracting BoS doing work and not providing other equipment (just skills and labour). We still haven't a clue how its going to pan out so the advice has to be keep well away until things settle down (hopefully by April 18)....

[MrMarkyMark]

It was a badly phrased example which didn't cover project based work. It was just 5 consulting / contracting BoS doing work and not providing other equipment (just skills and labour). We still haven't a clue how its going to pan out so the advice has to be keep well away until things settle down (hopefully by April 18)....

True....but it still disappeared...no mention of consultancies in the other subsequent examples were there?

I haven't done any PS roles for years and even then was only contracting via a consultancy.

However, it seems a very uneven playing field and has possibly ended up where I suspected, big paydays for consultancies, who will continue to use contractors, boot up the 'arris for the little independent guy, true specialist or not.

[eek]

True....but it still disappeared...no mention of consultancies in the other subsequent examples were there?

I haven't done any PS roles for years and even then was only contracting via a consultancy.

However, it seems a very uneven playing field and has possibly ended up where I suspected, big paydays for consultancies, who will continue to use contractors, boot up the 'arris for the little independent guy, true specialist or not.

Or its an opportunity for those with ambition to expand beyond being one little independent guy into something bigger...

For that was my plan from January and its only delayed due to an opportunity to really, really differentiate myself from the other players.

[Hotsauce56]

I'm going to have a big slice of humble pie, it seems that not all consultancy work staffed by contractors will be deemed inside.

The guidance notes we received before stated it was covered. Obviously there is a caveat, quoted below.



Contractors' Questions: Are consultancies inside April’s IR35 rule change? :: Contractor UK

Glad I didn't pay you for that search