IPSE Magazine

[TheFaQQer]

Let's put this another way. IPSE's CEO, Chris Bryce, appeared at the Lords' inquiry into IR35 recently. Introduced as coming from the Professional Contractors Group, their noble lords immediately welcomed him as representing the building trades.

Yes, there are 4.5 million non-employees out there. Roughly half are what we would call knowledge-based economy workers, as opposed to the other skilled trades, shop owners and the like. We would expect the former group to be potential IPSE members and not the second. However, if IPSE can say its membership covers over 2 million workers, it can realistically be said to be representing the views of non-employed workers, with rather more justification than it can with 22,000 members. Nobody that matters will worry about who the 2 million actually are.

At least he managed to rectify that perception with the opening line of "We are a representative body for professional contractors, freelancers and independent professionals within the UK".

Ask the man in the street to pick an industry where people are self-employed, and I'd bet that engineer and IT consultant are significantly lower on the list than builder, plumber, electrician etc. I can't really see how playing up the self-employed aspect will stop the Lords thinking we are builders, to be honest.

Anyway - as I said earlier, at what stage will a self-employed plumber be stopped from joining up?

[v8gaz]

Anyway - as I said earlier, at what stage will a self-employed plumber be stopped from joining up?

When he realises that he isn't going to get a lot of benefit from spending a couple of hundred quid on IR35 insurances. The product isn't aimed at him, but even if he does, that's more cash in the kitty to protect and support contractors, and a bigger number to wave in front of HMG.

[Taita]

When he realises that he isn't going to get a lot of benefit from spending a couple of hundred quid on IR35 insurances. The product isn't aimed at him, but even if he does, that's more cash in the kitty to protect and support contractors, and a bigger number to wave in front of HMG.

Although this clearly is not a quote from IPSE, it does serve to underline the lack of clarity of the IPSE message.

Tax measures intended to net 'here today gone tomorrow' self-employed workers are quite unlikely to be welcomed by (or suited to) professionals operating firmly rooted, already formally regulated limited companies.

Blurring the distinctions and being vague about who IPSE represent may grow the numbers quickly and greatly but who wants to be paying tax and NI in advance (or have it retained by the purchaser of services) just because they are potentially a flight risk?

IPSE should remember how long it took most MPs to collectively (some still haven't got it) understand the concept of contractor or freelancer as discussed here!

[Batcher]

One of the reasons I enjoy being a contractor is the lack of office politics.

Why you are all getting anal about this is beyond me.

If you feel IPSE is good value for money and represents your interests then join up (and if you enjoy the politics join the CC). Discuss all the stuff on the fora over there until your heart's content.

If you don't feel it represents your interests then leave.

I don't have any interest in the politics so I will leave that to others. As long as they represent me and provide good value for money then I will remain a member. I certainly wouldn't leave just because they let a load of self-employed plumbers join up.

It's like a snobby golf club in here sometimes.

[TheFaQQer]

One of the reasons I enjoy being a contractor is the lack of office politics.

Why you are all getting anal about this is beyond me.

If you feel IPSE is good value for money and represents your interests then join up (and if you enjoy the politics join the CC). Discuss all the stuff on the fora over there until your heart's content.

If you don't feel it represents your interests then leave.

I don't have any interest in the politics so I will leave that to others. As long as they represent me and provide good value for money then I will remain a member. I certainly wouldn't leave just because they let a load of self-employed plumbers join up.

It's like a snobby golf club in here sometimes.

I don't think it's about elitism of not letting plumbers join. It's a concern of some members that if the organisation is now claiming to represent 2.5 million plumbers, builders, other lower-SOC jobs, which account for more than 50% of the audience that they claim to represent, then what are they doing for those original members who fall outside of that market.

"as long as they represent me and provide good value for money" - the question that people are asking is whether the organisation will continue to be representative. I find it difficult to balance the lines of "we won't forget our roots, and remain mainly IT and engineering contractors" and "we represent 4.5 million self-employed workers, the majority of which are not in the industries / jobs that we have always represented"

[Batcher]

I don't think it's about elitism of not letting plumbers join. It's a concern of some members that if the organisation is now claiming to represent 2.5 million plumbers, builders, other lower-SOC jobs, which account for more than 50% of the audience that they claim to represent, then what are they doing for those original members who fall outside of that market.

"as long as they represent me and provide good value for money" - the question that people are asking is whether the organisation will continue to be representative. I find it difficult to balance the lines of "we won't forget our roots, and remain mainly IT and engineering contractors" and "we represent 4.5 million self-employed workers, the majority of which are not in the industries / jobs that we have always represented"

Well we can't see into the future so we will have to wait and see if they can represent everyone under one organisation. Everyone seems to be jumping the gun and saying it can't be done.

As they grow they might have a dedicated team for IT contractors and another for self-employed plumbers dealing with the issues that face those different types of business owners.

[malvolio]

Well we can't see into the future so we will have to wait and see if they can represent everyone under one organisation. Everyone seems to be jumping the gun and saying it can't be done.

As they grow they might have a dedicated team for IT contractors and another for self-employed plumbers dealing with the issues that face those different types of business owners.

Indeed. It would be stupid not to differentiate if the membership gets big enough and diverse enough to need it.

However what people are wilfully ignoring is that the same problems affect all non-employees; IR35 is, to HMG, a trivial side issue these days, it's about having a voice, being able to influence policy and cutting down the mountain of irrelevant red tape and regulation that stops us all being productive. That's what IPSE is spending its time and money on right now as far as I can see and it's not going to change.

And as the man says, if you want the proper skinny, and definitive answers, get to the IPSE boards and ask questions.

[Tasslehoff]

Well, FWIW I dont read the mag and rarely go on the site.

BUT, its a no brainer in my opinion for the IR35 legal cover.

It was a toss up between this and QDOS (which is also very good, as are QDOS in general) but this one slightly met my needs better.

My opinion exactly.