IPSE Magazine

[quackhandle]

No apology needed as this was the sort of discussion I was after, and it's been good to read everyone's opinion on the matter (hence why I didn't stick it in General)

I'm probably going to renew if only for the fact if HMRC come knocking I want some help on my side.

qh

[jamesbrown]

No it's not. For one thing you really need to get your head around "self employed". Apart from that covering a much wider range than sole traders, IPSE also covers Independent Professionals, which is what I am and I hope you are. There is no change in focus involved.

Piffle. It's you that apparently fails to understand the difference. There are 4+ million self-employed people in the UK. There are a few hundred thousand contractors. The category of "Independent Professional" means no more to me than "Personal Service Company"; it's an utterly vacuous expression.

[tractor]

...

Piffle. It's you that apparently fails to understand the difference. There are 4+ million self-employed people in the UK. There are a few hundred thousand contractors. The category of "Independent Professional" means no more to me than "Personal Service Company"; it's an utterly vacuous expression.

Indeed. Freelancer is by far the more appropriate collective for us all. I have met many contactors in many fields in my time and many have been professional. Independence does not infer profession or professionalism.

FWIW, I have no issue with the acronym that has been chosen. As long as it's catchy it doesn't matter and all this preoccupation with latin makes me laugh. What I do have an issue with is this concept that a Ltd contractor is exactly the same and should be treated exactly the same as a SE plumber.

[TheFaQQer]

The main point being that Mal thinks we are the equivalent of LIDL. I think he would be surprised to know how many of us actually are members.

I think that in general (or General, specifically), CUK members are regarded as the fruitcakes and loonies, rather than any form of serious voice.

[malvolio]

Indeed. Freelancer is by far the more appropriate collective for us all. I have met many contactors in many fields in my time and many have been professional. Independence does not infer profession or professionalism.

FWIW, I have no issue with the acronym that has been chosen. As long as it's catchy it doesn't matter and all this preoccupation with latin makes me laugh. What I do have an issue with is this concept that a Ltd contractor is exactly the same and should be treated exactly the same as a SE plumber.

But that's the whole point: they aren't after plumbers and shop keepers and builders. They're after the huge number of people that are what you and I would recognise as contractors, people who sell knowledge rather than manual skills. That covers artisans, freelance artists and webbies, locum doctors, several other medical disciplines from lab rats to pharmacists to physios, interim managers. freelance journalists... The list is never ending without getting into blue collar trades

If appears to me that you are seeing us as some sort of elite. We aren't, and collectively we aren't big enough for anyone to care about us: 150k votes is bugger all.

4.5 million votes though, that makes a difference.

[SueEllen]

Indeed. Freelancer is by far the more appropriate collective for us all. I have met many contactors in many fields in my time and many have been professional. Independence does not infer profession or professionalism.

FWIW, I have no issue with the acronym that has been chosen. As long as it's catchy it doesn't matter and all this preoccupation with latin makes me laugh. What I do have an issue with is this concept that a Ltd contractor is exactly the same and should be treated exactly the same as a SE plumber.

You seriously misunderstand the type of people who work through limited companies and those who choose not to. For example lots of those in the building trade including plumbers use limited companies to ensure they aren't personally liable for f*** ups. So if you are happy to be associated with a limited company plumber, rather than a self-employed solicitor then so be it.

[RasputinDude]

(hence why I didn't stick it in General)

qh

You can't possibly be suggesting that threads in general tend to wander off into the absurd...

[tractor]

...

You seriously misunderstand the type of people who work through limited companies and those who choose not to. For example lots of those in the building trade including plumbers use limited companies to ensure they aren't personally liable for f*** ups. So if you are happy to be associated with a limited company plumber, rather than a self-employed solicitor then so be it.

Really, I do understand the difference. That is the issue. Once we accept this new corporate vehicle that everyone is talking about (Labour, Tories, HMRC & IPSE) we are coralled away from our limited protections and our traditional way of working.

The biggest issue that I have is that the people in the know (above) are not sharing what they are proposing. If there is going to be no difference to what we have now, why is another type of corporate vehicle needed.

But this is another issue from the OP and even what it had morphed into.

[jamesbrown]

4.5 million votes though, that makes a difference.

4.5 million votes for what? It has nothing to do with elitism (any more than identifying categories of self-employed people that IPSE might prefer). Rather, it's an issue of scale versus relevance, i.e. smaller and more relevant versus larger and less relevant. Anyway, a lot of this remains to be seen. For now, I'll remain a member while the concrete benefits exceed the costs.

[TheFaQQer]

But that's the whole point: they aren't after plumbers and shop keepers and builders. They're after the huge number of people that are what you and I would recognise as contractors, people who sell knowledge rather than manual skills. That covers artisans, freelance artists and webbies, locum doctors, several other medical disciplines from lab rats to pharmacists to physios, interim managers. freelance journalists... The list is never ending without getting into blue collar trades

So what prevents a builder joining IPSE because they are self employed, see the PR work about how they are looking after the interests of the self employed, and think that IPSE is representing them. Are they are part of the 4.5 million that we are happy to include them in the numbers that we "represent", but not actually welcome as members?