• Visitors can check out the Forum FAQ by clicking this link. You have to register before you can post: click the REGISTER link above to proceed. To start viewing messages, select the forum that you want to visit from the selection below. View our Forum Privacy Policy.
  • FREE workshop: Preparing contractors for Autumn : Weds 29th Sep at 7.15pm. More details here.

Immediate Termination from Client without serving Notice

Collapse
X
  •  
  • Filter
  • Time
  • Show
Clear All
new posts

    Immediate Termination from Client without serving Notice

    Hi All

    This is my first post, and sadly one, which probably no one would want to post.

    Let me introduce my self, I am an IT contractor using my Ltd company to bill the agency for work carried out at client's site.

    Today morning, I told my client that I will be on leave for 2 days this week to which my client said NO as it was a tight schedule. Client said they cant let me go for 2 days as its tough. I said I have to take 2 days off and I wont be in city to work. In No case I can be here. Then client said he will talk to Agency. I said ok !

    Later that afternoon I received a call from agent who said; My contract has been terminated with immediate effect and tomorrow shall be my last day.
    I was in little shock and I said, well that is not as per our terms, notice period is not immediate. To which agent said there is a clause in contract saying

    "Not withstanding the notice period of this agreement, where required by the client the employment business may be terminated without notice and without liability instruct the contractor to cease work at any time FOR ANY REASON THE CONTRACTOR PROVES UNSATISFACTORY TO THE CLIENT"

    Now, my question is, does the above clause covers the case where I have to take 2 days off from work ?
    I think, if I would have agreed to client and cancelled my leaves that would jeopardize my IR35 status.

    Can I now ask my agency to pay for the notice period or can I ask the client to give me the legit notice period of 4 weeks ?

    I am a little pissed off with what happened today because in all my previous contracts I have never been in a situation where any of my leaves were questioned, as being contractor I do expect to work as and when I want and I can.

    Any guidance will be highly appreciated.

    Thanks
    Regards
    M

    #2
    Just some observations:
    1. You signed the contract with that clause in - if you didn't like the wording you should have negotiated with the agent to get different wording put in.

    2. There is a thing called common courtesy - if you aren't sick or it's not an emergency then you need to give people more advanced warning if you need to take more than half a day off.

    Clients don't tend to get rid of contractors that warn them they need to take random time off, however they do get rid of contractors who piss them off.
    "You’re just a bad memory who doesn’t know when to go away" JR

    Comment


      #3
      Originally posted by SueEllen View Post
      Just some observations:
      1. You signed the contract with that clause in - if you didn't like the wording you should have negotiated with the agent to get different wording put in.

      2. There is a thing called common courtesy - if you aren't sick or it's not an emergency then you need to give people more advanced warning if you need to take more than half a day off.

      Clients don't tend to get rid of contractors that warn them they need to take random time off, however they do get rid of contractors who piss them off.

      for #1 I agree that I signed that knowing its implications but all i want to know is, is this situation covered under this blanket ?

      regarding #2, I agree that there is a thing called common courtesy, but is this common courtesy only expected from one side ? are contractors not allowed to have emergencies ? can they not take time off if they HAVE to ? Shouldn't getting rid on pissing them off be preceded by some sort of verbal warning as a Common Courtesy ?

      -- Had this not been an emergency I wouldn't have been in this situation.

      -- With all due respect to you as a senior member, please try to reply only when it helps out the seeker. Sorry to say this but you were not helpful on this occasion !

      Comment


        #4
        SueEllen is correct here. YourCo. Is in breach and they have taken the opportunity to terminate.

        Sorry if you don't like it, but if you want sympathy, this isn't Mumsnet?
        I was an IPSE Consultative Council Member, until the BoD abolished it. I am not an IPSE Member, since they have no longer have any relevance to me, as an IT Contractor. Read my lips...I recommend QDOS for ALL your Insurance requirements (Contact me for a referral code).

        Comment


          #5
          Originally posted by Scruff View Post
          SueEllen is correct here. YourCo. Is in breach and they have taken the opportunity to terminate.
          Thanks for your reply Scruff, this is what i was not sure about that is my company in breach ? As contract no where mentions that how and when i can ask for leaves ? And is it good enough reason to not serve notice period ??

          Comment


            #6
            Originally posted by muds View Post
            Thanks for your reply Scruff, this is what i was not sure about that is my company in breach ? As contract no where mentions that how and when i can ask for leaves ? And is it good enough reason to not serve notice period ??
            It won't mention requests for leave as you're a contractor and not an employee and therefore leave requests don't apply (and such things as verbal warnings are also permie talk). The contract simply states "FOR ANY REASON THE CONTRACTOR PROVES UNSATISFACTORY TO THE CLIENT" and in this scenario it appears as though you've proven to be unsatisfactory and therefore they've terminated the contract which is their right.

            I'm sorry to hear that you may have an emergency that requires your attention but from the clients I've worked with I'm pretty sure that if it was a true emergency and I'd explained my reasoning for taking time off to the client first that they'd usually be pretty accommodating.

            If you'd explained it to them from your perspective and they still ended up feeling miffed and terminated your contract then you may be better off without that client anyway.

            Good luck.

            Comment


              #7
              Originally posted by Scruff View Post
              SueEllen is correct here. YourCo. Is in breach and they have taken the opportunity to terminate.

              Sorry if you don't like it, but if you want sympathy, this isn't Mumsnet?
              Not sure the OP is in breach of his contract that he, on behalf of his LtdCo, signed tbh.

              That being said, the clause is quite clear: "Not withstanding the notice period of this agreement, where required by the client the employment business may be terminated without notice and without liability instruct the contractor to cease work at any time FOR ANY REASON THE CONTRACTOR PROVES UNSATISFACTORY TO THE CLIENT". The clause quite clearly states that the contract can be terminated if the contractor proves unsatisfactory for any reason. Any reason at all. Including the not wholly unreasonable fact that the OP didn't provide a lot of notice in relation to his missing two days.

              It doesn't matter about whether or not it was an emergency. OP's client has an obligation to look after its employees and cater for their emergencies, but that obligation does not extend to businesses with whom the client chooses to do business.

              With regards to the notice period; notice periods are irrelevant. If the contract is IR35 proof, it should have a MOO clause which will say that you are not obligated to accept work offered, and they are not obligated to offer you work during the period. So in effect, the client can simply say "here's your four weeks notice. Oh, and we don't need you after tomorrow". Notice periods from your POV are useless.

              Sidenote, I'm afraid I have little sympathy for the OP. We all have emergencies from time-to-time, but it's how we manage it that's important. The client has a right to be pissed, I think. Sounds like they have some tight deadlines, and regardless of the OP's reasons, he is letting them down. I can understand why the client terminated the contract.

              Comment


                #8
                Agree it sounds like you rubbed them up the wrong way and this constitutes a reason to drop you. "Tough, I'm not coming in" when there is a tight deadline you already knew about is not professional. An emergency they would probably accept but giving them less than a week's notice you are taking a holiday during a crunch time, it is not surprising they are upset especially when you are not willing to negotiate at all.

                Does your contract even allow YOU to do this?
                Originally posted by MaryPoppins
                I'd still not breastfeed a nazi
                Originally posted by vetran
                Urine is quite nourishing

                Comment


                  #9
                  Originally posted by muds View Post
                  Hi All

                  as being contractor I do expect to work as and when I want and I can.

                  But your client expects that as a contractor you will do as you are told and work when he wants you to work. Since he is the one paying the bills, he calls the shots.

                  Having said that terminating someone within a team in the middle of a critical period is not something usually taken lightly. They have weighed the risks of letting you go against the risk of letting you behave as you want and stay and decided they are better off without you.

                  You probably want to reflect on how you show up to your clients.

                  Comment


                    #10
                    Originally posted by muds View Post
                    "Not withstanding the notice period of this agreement, where required by the client the employment business may be terminated without notice and without liability instruct the contractor to cease work at any time FOR ANY REASON THE CONTRACTOR PROVES UNSATISFACTORY TO THE CLIENT"

                    Now, my question is, does the above clause covers the case where I have to take 2 days off from work ?
                    If taking two days off constitutes being unsatisfactory to the client, then they have every right to terminate with immediate effect. If it doesn't, then they can't. Unfortunately, the contract isn't going to detail what makes it unsatisfactory or not, so all the client has to do is say "we aren't satisfied" and they can terminate with immediate effect.

                    In my first summer job, I was entitled to a break every afternoon "at the manager's convenience". When the company scrapped the breaks, I asked my contract law professor at university about whether they could do that. His answer was that if they said "it wasn't convenient" then they could.

                    Originally posted by muds View Post
                    I think, if I would have agreed to client and cancelled my leaves that would jeopardize my IR35 status.
                    I don't think it would have made a material difference to your IR35 status - would they have treated any supplier differently? Probably not, so it can't be used as a differentiating factor. You could, of course, have offered a substitute for those two days...

                    Originally posted by muds View Post
                    Can I now ask my agency to pay for the notice period or can I ask the client to give me the legit notice period of 4 weeks ?
                    You can ask. You won't get paid because they have terminated in line with the contract. The client could give you four weeks notice and then not give you any work to do in that time, which is a worse situation - you wouldn't get any money, but you'd still have to be available to fulfil the contract.
                    Best Forum Advisor 2014
                    Work in the public sector? You can read my FAQ here
                    Click here to get 15% off your first year's IPSE membership

                    Comment

                    Working...
                    X