https://twitter.com/BrexitCentral/status/1104372765983981568
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…Maybe we ain’t that young anymore -
This may not help my cause, because this chap is a remainer.Originally posted by WTFH View Post
Factcheck 26 questions on EU | Derek Thomas MPThe UK along with all existing members of the EU lose their abstention veto in 2020 as laid down in the Lisbon Treaty when the system changes to that of majority acceptance with no abstentions or veto’s being allowed.
As is explained by the EU here , there is no such thing as an ‘abstention veto’ under the EU Treaties. In cases where the EU Treaties require unanimity in order to proceed, an abstention simply reduces the vote count, but does not count as a vote ‘against’ that will veto any proposals (see Art 235(1) TFEU) and 238(4) TFEU). Under qualified majority voting (QMV), abstention does count as a vote against, but no single Member State can oppose an EU action and prevent it from being adopted; a collective ‘veto’ (a blocking minority ) is possible if there is substantial opposition (usually this must include at least four Council members representing more than 35% of the EU population).
The exception is the Common Foreign and Security Policy, where Article 31(1) TEU sets out the following:
Decisions under this Chapter shall be taken by the European Council and the Council acting unanimously, except where this Chapter provides otherwise. The adoption of legislative acts shall be excluded.
When abstaining in a vote, any member of the Council may qualify its abstention by making a formal declaration under the present subparagraph. In that case, it shall not be obliged to apply the decision, but shall accept that the decision commits the Union. In a spirit of mutual solidarity, the Member State concerned shall refrain from any action likely to conflict with or impede Union action based on that decision and the other Member States shall respect its position. If the members of the Council qualifying their abstention in this way represent at least one third of the Member States comprising at least one third of the population of the Union, the decision shall not be adopted.
Conclusion: Everyone loses their veto. Or the definition of veto might have to change.
(Edit for crap grammar)Last edited by Mordac; 11 March 2019, 15:55.His heart is in the right place - shame we can't say the same about his brain...Comment
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He was factchecking the lies that are doing the rounds. There's one that says "26 things the EU doesn't want you to know about the Lisbon Treaty", or some wording similar to that. It's been circulated so much that it is being reported as fact. Derek Thomas has taken those 26 questions and responded to them.Originally posted by Mordac View Post
Here's an example of them: FW: THE HARD FACTS ABOUT LISBON TREATY FOR BEND VIRAL RITAIN | Keighley Reality
The Lisbon Treaty does not mention 2020 or 2022. Derek Thomas has pointed out - providing links - to the lies in the 26 claims.KNOWN LISBON TREATY OUTCOMES THAT HAVE ALREADY BEEN AGREED BY ALL SIDES AS TRUE:
1: The UK along with all existing members of the EU lose their abstention veto in 2020 as laid down in the Lisbon Treaty when the system changes to that of majority acceptance with no abstentions or veto’s being allowed.
2: All member nations will become states of the new federal nation of the EU by 2022 as clearly laid out in the Lisbon Treaty with no exceptions or veto’s.
3: All member states must adopt the Euro by 2022 and any new member state must do so within 2 years of joining the EU as laid down in the Lisbon Treaty.
4: The London stock exchange will move to Frankfurt in 2020 and be integrated into the EU stock exchange resulting in a loss of 200,000 plus jobs in the UK because of the relocation. This has already been pre-agreed and is only on a holding pattern due to the Brexit negotiations - which, if Brexit does happen the move is fully cancelled but if not and the UK remains a member, it is full steam ahead for the move.
5: The EU Parliament and ECJ become supreme over all legislative bodies of the UK.
6: The UK will adopt 100% of whatever the EU Parliament and ECJ lays down without any means of abstention or veto, negating the need for the UK to have the Lords or even the Commons as we know it today.
7: The UK will NOT be able to make its own trade deals.
8: The UK will NOT be able to set its own trade tariffs.
9: The UK will NOT be able to set its own trade quotas.
10: The UK loses all control of its fishing rights
11: The UK loses all control of its oil and gas rights
12: The UK loses all control of its borders and enters the Schengen region by 2022 as clearly laid down in the Lisbon Treaty
13: The UK loses all control of its planning legislation
14: The UK loses all control of its armed forces including its nuclear deterrent
15: The UK loses all control of its taxation policy
16: The UK loses all ability to create its own laws or to implement them
17: The UK loses all standing in the Commonwealth
18: The UK loses control of all provinces or affiliated nations e.g.; Falklands, Cayman Islands, Gibraltar etc.,
19: The UK loses all control of its judicial system
20: The UK loses all control of its international policy
21: The UK loses all control of its national policy
22: The UK loses all right to call itself a nation in its own right.
23: The UK loses all control of its space exploration program
24: The UK loses all control of its Aviation and Sea lane jurisdiction
25: The UK loses all rebate in 2020 as laid down in the Lisbon Treaty
26: The UK’s contribution to the EU is set to increase by an average of £1.2bn pa and by £2.3bn pa by 2020
So, while you might think that if the UK stayed in the EU we would have to join the Euro in 3 years, or Schengen etc. Read Protocol 15 and Protocol 19.
…Maybe we ain’t that young anymoreComment
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The veto question is actually about the removal of national vetoes in a number of areas, including fighting climate change, energy security and emergency aid. Unanimity will still be required in the areas of tax, foreign policy, defence and social security. There will still be the veto allowed in most areas.
Read the UK parliament take on it: https://publications.parliament.uk/pa/cm201719/cmselect/cmeuleg/301-xxxix/30116.htm
Now if you want to go full tinfoil hat, you could read this:
OK so we’ve had the worst-case scenario for leaving the EU given to us by numerous outlets ranging from the Bank of England to the spoiled prepubescent acting momentum supporter and everyone in-between.So, I am now going to tell you the worst-case scenario of remaining in the EU based on actual known factors and figures, sourced from the public records of the UK Government, the EU Parliament, The Bank of England, the CBI, Migration watch, The Stock exchanges around the world, the IMF, and the UN.
So those of you who think that this little rant is a tin foil hat moment by myself think again and go and fully research and cross reference what I am about to tell you and remember this is worst-case scenario that could happen unless I clearly point out where it will happen by either a date or other factor.
KNOWN OUTCOMES THAT HAVE ALREADY BEEN AGREED AS TRUE BY ALL SIDES:
1: The UK along with all existing members of the EU lose their abstention veto in 2020 as laid down in the Lisbon Treaty when the system changes to that of majority acceptance with no abstentions or veto’s being allowed.
2: All member nations will become states of the new federal nation of the EU by 2022 as clearly laid out in the Lisbon treaty with no exceptions or veto’s.
3: All member states must adopt the Euro by 2022 and any new member state must do so within 2 years of joining the EU as laid down in the Lisbon treaty.
4: The London stock exchange will move to Frankfurt in 2020 and be integrated into the EU stock exchange resulting in a loss of 200,000 plus jobs in the UK because of the relocation. This has already been pre-agreed and is only on a holding pattern due to the Brexit negotiations, which if Brexit does happen the move is fully cancelled but if not and the UK remains a member it’s full steam ahead for the move.
5: The EU Parliament and ECJ become supreme over all legislative bodies of the UK.
6: The UK will adopt 100% of whatever the EU Parliament and ECJ lays down without any means of abstention or veto, negating the need for the UK to have the Lords or even the Commons as we know it today.
7: The UK will NOT be able to make its own trade deals.
8: The UK will NOT be able to set its own trade tariffs.
9 The UK will NOT be able to set its own trade quotas.
10: The UK loses control of its fishing rights
11: The UK loses control of its oil and gas rights
12: The UK loses control of its borders and enters the Schengen region by 2022 as clearly laid down in the Lisbon treaty
13: The UK loses control of its planning legislation
14: The UK loses control of its armed forces including its nuclear deterrent
15: The UK loses full control of its taxation policy
16: The UK loses the ability to create its own laws and to implement them
17: The UK loses its standing in the Commonwealth
18: The UK loses control of any provinces or affiliated nations e.g.; Falklands, Cayman Islands, Gibraltar ect
19: The UK loses control of its judicial system
20: The UK loses control of its international policy
21: The UK loses full control of its national policy
22: The UK loses its right to call itself a nation in its own right.
23: The UK loses control of its space exploration program
24: The UK loses control of its Aviation and Sea lane jurisdiction
25: The UK loses its rebate in 2020 as laid down in the Lisbon treaty
26: The UK’s contribution to the EU is set to increase by an average of 1.2bn pa and by 2.3bn pa by 2020
PROBABLE WORST-CASE OUTCOMES
1: The UK will become nothing more than a vassal protectorate state
2: With the continuation of freedom of movement, the population of the UK will continue to grow at a rate higher than pre-referendum level ranging between 400,000 to 675,000 per annum.
2.1; Which will result in not just wage suppression but even wage depression.
2.2; More than 500,000 new homes to be built annually (We are currently only managing 125,000)
2.3; House prices and rents will skyrocket annually by 23%
2.4; Class sizes in schools would have to increase by 50% if not even double
2.5; The NHS will become solely an emergency service of care provider as they would no longer be able to cope with the numbers of people needing care other than those of emergency.
2.6; GP’s will become triage centres
2.7; Public transport will become permit holders use only
2.8; Only those that did a serious crime namely murder will be given a custodial sentence
2.9; The Court system becomes fully overrun to the point extreme cases only being heard and the rest being given an automatic fine
2.10; Emergency services collapsing for not being able to cope with the scale of things
2.11; Social care becoming solely private social care for those who can afford it.
2.12; Homelessness to increase by over 28% annually
2.13; Unemployment to increase annually by 37%
2.14; The Benefit system to collapse fully to the point of the return of soup kitchens and even workhouse existence
2.15; Crime to increase by over 59% annually
2.16; Shanty towns to become the norm standard of housing
3: Because the UK would no longer be able to make its own trade deals, nor control its tariffs or quotas, Food prices would increase by over 25% and the cost of living would go up by over 39%
4: Because the UK would lose its oil and gas rights it would also lose the revenue from taxation on them, resulting in a loss of over 600 billion per year in taxation revenue
5: Because the UK will become a member state its percentage share of the vote on any new laws, regulations, treaties and everything else is at current member numbers 3.57% of the vote. That’s right folks the UK say in the EU if it was to remain a member is 3.57% total
Everything I have put thus far is just the very extreme tip of the iceberg that is ready to sink the UK if we remain a member of the EU.
Everything is verifiable by the sources I have already outlined above and is something the EU propaganda machine as well as our very own government are not telling you.
Remainers keep on bleating about that the people didn’t know all of the facts
If that’s the case then why are they failing to tell the people the downside or remaining a member of the EU.
ASK YOURSELVES THAT FACT AND FIND OUT THE TRUE HARD FACTS FOR YOURSELF
“Brexit is having a wee in the middle of the room at a house party because nobody is talking to you, and then complaining about the smell.”Comment
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YupOriginally posted by BlasterBates View Post
All those thungs UK blocked over many decades will now be dusted off and applied
Brexit is the worst defeat of the British interests since like everComment
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Will that be a good thing or a bad thing?Originally posted by AtW View Post
What was it that the UK was so against that the rest of the EU were so for? (isn't this a good reason for the EU to let the UK go then - oh wait $$$$)
Are there examples of things we blocked in the 80's/90's which is now seen as a good move?
Are the examples of things we blocked in the 80's/90's which have been seen as having a negative impact?Comment
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Why ask questions when you clearly don't want an answer as your mind is already made up by ready the wail?Originally posted by original PM View Post
You constantly refer to the EU wanting our money, yet in reality it is not them stopping us from leaving but your beloved ERG/brexit MPs. The EU have given us a get out transition deal, but your lot won't sign it off. If the EU was so intent on forcing us to stay there wouldn't be a deal available.
Try thinking for yourself, for just one minute, rather than spouting the crap you read in alt-right forums and the Wail/Express. I know that will be hard for you, but go on, give it a go. You never know, you might learn something.I am what I drink, and I'm a bitter man
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Ok what I was trying to do was start an intelligent discussion about all the things the UK have vetoed and , with the benefit of hindsight' was it the right or wrong decision for the Uk to veto it?Originally posted by Whorty View Post
In essence I was trying to just apply a small amount of science in what is clearly for some people an emotive subject.
I do not care whether the outcomes were that the UK was always right or always wrong - I am just interested in the facts.
As once we have the facts we can start to make intelligent decisions and extrapolate more likely scenarios.Comment
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Very bad for UK, very good for EUOriginally posted by original PM View Post
Euro clearing was recently blocked by UK in court - ECB tried to move it to eurozone, now they will be able to do it.
Financial transaction tax was blocked by UK, and general regulation of money laundering via UKs dirty laundries like Isle of Man, British Virgin Islands, Jersey etc
This should be enough to disrupt money inflows, high raise building in Docklands will be used by homeless (former brokers)Comment
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