Backstops and hard borders

[d000hg]

So they won't pass Brexit agreements without the backstop being reworked. Which the EU still insists won't happen.
But if things take their course and we end up with No Deal by default, then it's if anything even worse because NI will still have an open border with the EU except with no deal in place at all? We then have two fundamentally opposed policies in the Good Friday Agreement (no border in Ireland) and EU (no open border).

Is that all correct? If so, what on earth and who on earth is responsible? Will the EU have to build a giant wall and make the UK pay for it? Clearly there is no way (?) to build a proper border in 2 months.

[Old Greg]

So they won't pass Brexit agreements without the backstop being reworked. Which the EU still insists won't happen.
But if things take their course and we end up with No Deal by default, then it's if anything even worse because NI will still have an open border with the EU except with no deal in place at all? We then have two fundamentally opposed policies in the Good Friday Agreement (no border in Ireland) and EU (no open border).

Is that all correct? If so, what on earth and who on earth is responsible? Will the EU have to build a giant wall and make the UK pay for it? Clearly there is no way (?) to build a proper border in 2 months.

The UK is a signatory to the GFA which requires an open border, and is looking to leave the SM and CU which facilitates the open border. The UK needs to solve the conundrum it has created. The backstop was negotiated by the UK to achieve this. The UK need to man up to its responsibilities and stop behaving like a spoilt brat that thinks it can have its cake and eat it.

[d000hg]

But of the EU refuses to budge on the backstop and parliament cannot pass anything, how can we "man up"? What could actually be done?
Because it sounds like in the event of No Deal, Eire would still be obligated to instigate a border with NI under EU rules?

[Old Greg]

But of the EU refuses to budge on the backstop and parliament cannot pass anything, how can we "man up"? What could actually be done?
Because it sounds like in the event of No Deal, Eire would still be obligated to instigate a border with NI under EU rules?

Parliament can pass anything it wants to.

[BlasterBates]

But of the EU refuses to budge on the backstop and parliament cannot pass anything, how can we "man up"? What could actually be done?
Because it sounds like in the event of No Deal, Eire would still be obligated to instigate a border with NI under EU rules?

Indeed they would.

Everyone in the UK will sit there and gloat while NI goes up in flames, saying it's not their fault.

It is increasingly likely they and the nationalists will push for a referendum on the unification of Ireland in the event of a no deal to resolve the issue. If they do this in accordance with the Good Friday Agreement, no doubt the British government will be outraged.

[Old Greg]

Indeed they would.

Everyone in the UK will sit there and gloat while NI goes up in flames, saying it's not their fault.

It is increasingly likely they and the nationalists will push for a referendum on the unification of Ireland in the event of a no deal to resolve the issue. If they do this in accordance with the Good Friday Agreement, no doubt the British government will be outraged.

A referendum also needs a majority in the Republic. It is questionable whether it would succeed on either side of the border.

[BlasterBates]

A referendum also needs a majority in the Republic. It is questionable whether it would succeed on either side of the border.

Well in Northern Ireland there looks to be support for unification.

New poll suggests majority in Northern Ireland want a United Ireland after Brexit

I think a no deal Brexit will increase the chances significantly.

[Old Greg]

The details will be the killer.

The UK sends more money to NI than it does to the EU (it is close and it does of course depend on how you count it). Will the RoI do the same? If not, what does that mean for the NI health service which is better than the RoI's and free at the point of delivery. Will people in NI stomach paying to visit GP or ED?

Also, the RoI has never made a convincing offer to Unionists to accommodate them within a new United Ireland. It has always been reaching 50% + 1 votes and the absorbing NI into the existing structure. And while the RoI is fast moving away from RC church influence, I doubt it is enough in practice to make enough protestants vote for a united Ireland.

And then there are considerations for how people in RoI would vote.

But who knows once everything is thrown up in the air?

[BlasterBates]

The details will be the killer.

The UK sends more money to NI than it does to the EU (it is close and it does of course depend on how you count it). Will the RoI do the same? If not, what does that mean for the NI health service which is better than the RoI's and free at the point of delivery. Will people in NI stomach paying to visit GP or ED?

Also, the RoI has never made a convincing offer to Unionists to accommodate them within a new United Ireland. It has always been reaching 50% + 1 votes and the absorbing NI into the existing structure. And while the RoI is fast moving away from RC church influence, I doubt it is enough in practice to make enough protestants vote for a united Ireland.

And then there are considerations for how people in RoI would vote.

But who knows once everything is thrown up in the air?

According to this poll the support for a united Ireland in the ROI is very high, so it's up to NI.

Exclusive: Irish people want a United Ireland, see a referendum in the next 10 years | IrishCentral.com

[Old Greg]

According to this poll the support for a united Ireland in the ROI is very high, so it's up to NI.

Exclusive: Irish people want a United Ireland, see a referendum in the next 10 years | IrishCentral.com

It's like Brexit. What type of United Ireland do people want? This needs to be defined before there is a border poll or it will be another mess.