Corbyn's end game

[Old Greg]

It's about way more than Schengen, movement of people doesn't even really come into it. It's also about more than the movement of goods between Ireland and Northern Ireland.

It's the WTO principle of controlling your borders. If the EU/UK leaves a border open and uncontrolled, there is a risk that other countries (USA, China, etc) will be able to take retaliatory action if they do not also get the same uncontrolled entry into the EU/UK.

It's also about the UK wanting to leave the SM and CU.

[Whorty]

It's about way more than Schengen, movement of people doesn't even really come into it. It's also about more than the movement of goods between Ireland and Northern Ireland.

It's the WTO principle of controlling your borders. If the EU/UK leaves a border open and uncontrolled, there is a risk that other countries (USA, China, etc) will be able to take retaliatory action if they do not also get the same uncontrolled entry into the EU/UK.

Brexiters still don't get this. They keep blaming the EU for rules that are set by the WTO yet they then say they want to leave under WTO rules. They're idiots

[BlueSharp]

It's about way more than Schengen, movement of people doesn't even really come into it. It's also about more than the movement of goods between Ireland and Northern Ireland.

It's the WTO principle of controlling your borders. If the EU/UK leaves a border open and uncontrolled, there is a risk that other countries (USA, China, etc) will be able to take retaliatory action if they do not also get the same uncontrolled entry into the EU/UK.

Not strictly true:
Does the WTO require countries to control their borders? – Trade β Blog

As long as duty could be collected on Irish goods in the same way USA goods the port inspection is irrelevant. Why not go one further and allow US firms none port inspections if they play by the same rules. I agree lawyers would have a field day arguing what constitutes as discrimination. If firms circumnavigate those rules then existing smuggling rules come into play.

[Old Greg]

Brexiters still don't get this. They keep blaming the EU for rules that are set by the WTO yet they then say they want to leave under WTO rules. They're idiots

That is true of the Leave voting cretins. The leaders of the movement are clever propagandists who will say anything to keep the project moving, at which point they will clean up at the expense of the population. If they can manage it, they will blame the EUSSR, with some 'stab in the Back' narrative about domestic Enemies of the People.

[meridian]

Not strictly true:
Does the WTO require countries to control their borders? – Trade β Blog

As long as duty could be collected on Irish goods in the same way USA goods the port inspection is irrelevant. Why not go one further and allow the US none port inspections if they play by the same rules. I agree lawyers would have a field day arguing what constitutes as discrimination. If firms circumnavigate those rules then existing smuggling rules come into play.

I agree - which is why I said "principle" and not "rule"

[malvolio]

It's about way more than Schengen, movement of people doesn't even really come into it. It's also about more than the movement of goods between Ireland and Northern Ireland.

It's the WTO principle of controlling your borders. If the EU/UK leaves a border open and uncontrolled, there is a risk that other countries (USA, China, etc) will be able to take retaliatory action if they do not also get the same uncontrolled entry into the EU/UK.

Not even that. Don't ignore the lunacy of the Good Friday Agreement. The fear is that a hard border will encourage the United Ireland gang to feel that the GFA has been ignored and that the Unionist gang have won and so kick off another round of uncontrolled violence like we had in the 70s. the minor detail that both parties' thugs have been continuing the violence anyway hasn't entered their heads yet.

Let's face it, they can't even get enough common ground to restart their own Parliament, let alone cope with the EU issue.

[Old Greg]

Not even that. Don't ignore the lunacy of the Good Friday Agreement. The fear is that a hard border will encourage the United Ireland gang to feel that the GFA has been ignored and that the Unionist gang have won and so kick off another round of uncontrolled violence like we had in the 70s. the minor detail that both parties' thugs have been continuing the violence anyway hasn't entered their heads yet.

Let's face it, they can't even get enough common ground to restart their own Parliament, let alone cope with the EU issue.

A hard Brexit and hard border may be enough to trigger a border poll. Difficult to predict what the outcome would be in these circumstances. The parlous state of the Irish health system and UK payments to NI may swing it but who knows?

[meridian]

Not even that. Don't ignore the lunacy of the Good Friday Agreement. The fear is that a hard border will encourage the United Ireland gang to feel that the GFA has been ignored and that the Unionist gang have won and so kick off another round of uncontrolled violence like we had in the 70s. the minor detail that both parties' thugs have been continuing the violence anyway hasn't entered their heads yet.

Let's face it, they can't even get enough common ground to restart their own Parliament, let alone cope with the EU issue.

Yeah, I tend to agree, there are lunatics there that will see any excuse as one to kick off. Though I find the whole "return to violence" argument as being very distasteful and not one that should be used by either side as a factor in what the solution should be.

[BlueSharp]

I agree - which is why I said "principle" and not "rule"

Thinking about this a bit more, it would be more of an issue for the e.u. than the u.k. Simply from the political angle that Trump would sell this to his core support that the e.u. are discriminating against American firms and it gives the USA a new front to attack the e.u via the courts and WTO.

The e.u. would either have to impose border checks, follow the concept of friction-less trade for all or agree to a generous deal to the UK.

[JohntheBike]

Not even that. Don't ignore the lunacy of the Good Friday Agreement. The fear is that a hard border will encourage the United Ireland gang to feel that the GFA has been ignored and that the Unionist gang have won and so kick off another round of uncontrolled violence like we had in the 70s. the minor detail that both parties' thugs have been continuing the violence anyway hasn't entered their heads yet.

Let's face it, they can't even get enough common ground to restart their own Parliament, let alone cope with the EU issue.

"the minor detail that both parties' thugs have been continuing the violence anyway" I can confirm this with first hand reports to me from a serving soldier whose regiment can't be mentioned.