Some Tory voters will accept Jeremy Corbyn becoming prime minister

[malvolio]

It's entirely possible to be very much against Brexit (thinking leaving the EU is the worst action the UK has taken in decades) and not favour a federal Europe. Or even to favour a federal Europe and believe it won't be controlled by an EU elite, but a free and democratic political system. So, perhaps not strawman, but maybe false dichotomy, or ridiculous extreme. Silly, anyway.

This bit is ideology. And this bit is the alternative opinon.

The main problem with that being the only countries capable of keeping the EU together are the same ones who are determined to deliver a Federal Europe. You can have both or neither.

[BlasterBates]

It's all academic as it is now abundantly clear that Britain will be a vassal state of whatever the EU decides it wants to be.

[vetran]

It's all academic as it is now abundantly clear that Britain will be a vassal state of whatever the EU decides it wants to be.

yes maybe this time they will succeed?

[Platypus]

c) I lived through the 70s so I'm well aware of the dangers of a left wing Labour government. It destroyed the car and steel industry in the area I grew up in resulting in my dad being out of work for the large part of my childhood with the poverty that it brought our family. The families of today have no idea of the poverty that was around in the 70s and what families like mine went through. Joining the EU and no longer being the poor man of Europe changed this country for the better. This is why I've gone through my life unwilling to support a Labour government backed by unions. However, even I would give up this principle of mine to reverse Brexit, or at least to reduce the possibility of a hard brexit that only delusional xenophobes and rich Tory toffs seem to want.

Heseltine accepts that a Labour govt would damage the country, but thinks 5 years' of that would be less damaging than Brexit. I disagree. I think that Jezza's mob will have us down the road to totalitarianism in short order. Heseltine's assumption that there would be another free and fair election 5 years later is IMO laughably naive. For one thing, the voting age would be lowered and this would pretty much guarantee that the Conservatives never win another election. A bit of messing with boundaries, massive cash bungs to Scotland or handing back NI would seal the deal.

Your characterisation of those who voted for Brexit is wrong. It's clear you don't know anyone who voted for Brexit, let alone make any attempt to understand the other side of the argument. You read about them in the Guardian or the Independent. The rabid remainers I know are just the same.

[darmstadt]

Your characterisation of those who voted for Brexit is wrong. It's clear you don't know anyone who voted for Brexit, let alone make any attempt to understand the other side of the argument. You read about them in the Guardian or the Independent. The rabid remainers I know are just the same.

Everyone knows someone who voted for Brexit, it's just they won't admit it

[northernladyuk]

Heseltine accepts that a Labour govt would damage the country, but thinks 5 years' of that would be less damaging than Brexit. I disagree. I think that Jezza's mob will have us down the road to totalitarianism in short order. Heseltine's assumption that there would be another free and fair election 5 years later is IMO laughably naive. For one thing, the voting age would be lowered and this would pretty much guarantee that the Conservatives never win another election. A bit of messing with boundaries, massive cash bungs to Scotland or handing back NI would seal the deal.

Your characterisation of those who voted for Brexit is wrong. It's clear you don't know anyone who voted for Brexit, let alone make any attempt to understand the other side of the argument. You read about them in the Guardian or the Independent. The rabid remainers I know are just the same.

Totalitarianism? Have you been paying attention to which newspapers have been using Nazi, Leninist and Orwellian newspeak rhetoric to publicly condemn opponents?

[Platypus]

Totalitarianism? Have you been paying attention to which newspapers have been using Nazi, Leninist and Orwellian newspeak rhetoric to publicly condemn opponents?

Have you been paying attention outside the MSM? Newspeak and doublethink are rife... on the left. Those buggers will have your property and assets in an instant, because it's only fair. There will be pogroms in the shires, whipped up by the likes of Stormzy.

I might have to move to Europe

[malvolio]

Everyone knows someone who voted for Brexit, it's just they won't admit it

Not at all. I don't actually know many who voted to remain...

I do know several who did vote remain and have now changed their minds.

[Whorty]

Your characterisation of those who voted for Brexit is wrong. It's clear you don't know anyone who voted for Brexit, let alone make any attempt to understand the other side of the argument. You read about them in the Guardian or the Independent. The rabid remainers I know are just the same.

See, this is where you are so, so wrong. As I said, I grew up in a very poor area of the Midlands and I still have a lot of contacts there. Most of my old school friends voted out, many of my family voted out. I saw their daily posts and rants on Facebook throughout the run up to the vote - some so vile I de-friended quite a few people. Sharing of 'Britain First' posts - the favourite of Brexit voters.

I don't read the Guardian or Independent either. Up until the ref I was always a Tory voter.

So yep, you know me well

[Whorty]

Not at all. I don't actually know many who voted to remain...

I do know several who did vote remain and have now changed their minds.

Really? Pretty much everyone who I've worked with since the ref, and as far as I know all of my current social circle, voted remain and not a single one has said they would change their mind.