How the EU is making a successful Brexit Difficult

[sasguru]

So extortion basically.

So let's walk away.
Don't fancy you and yours chances in a hard Brexit much

I want a hard Brexit, so hard the pips squeak.
Once people have figured out that the UK economy is based in the main on debt-based consumption propped up by a ponzi housing scheme and the whole thing collapses post a hard Brexit, we can start again from ground zero.
Hard times for some, I'll be laughing.

[BlasterBates]

hmm

€100bn Brexit bill is ‘legally impossible’ to enforce, European Commission’s own lawyers admit



https://fullfact.org/europe/eu-divorce-bill/



So extortion basically.

not really, they're talking about payments above and beyond 60 billion, and the House of Lords didn't conclude that there was no legal basis for it.

It's not extortion, If the UK don't want to pay it, it will be sorted out in court.

[vetran]

what they said was



In effect what they basically they said was that they didn't know, but maybe the UK could get away with it.

hmm

€100bn Brexit bill is ‘legally impossible’ to enforce, European Commission’s own lawyers admit

A massive €100bn Brexit bill is "legally impossible" to enforce, the European Commission’s own lawyers have admitted.

The Telegraph has seen minutes of internal deliberations circulated by Brussels’s own Brexit negotiating team, which had warned against pursuing the UK for extra payments.

But member states appear to have ignored the Commission's own advice by demanding €100bn (£85bn) from the Government, a sharp hike in the original demand of €60bn.

The inflated bill deepened the rift between Brussels and Downing Street. A leaked report of a Downing Street dinner with European Commission president Jean-Claude Juncker accused Theresa May of living in “another galaxy”, prompting the Prime Minister in turn to accuse EU politicians and officials of seeking to disrupt the General Election.

https://fullfact.org/europe/eu-divorce-bill/

In brief
A House of Lords report argues that legally the UK isn’t required to pay a penny. This has been disputed by some legal experts, and the report itself acknowledges that there are “competing interpretations”.

But even if it’s correct that there’s no enforceable legal obligation to pay a “Brexit bill”, the worry is that failure to settle on a sum will prevent an agreement on our future economic relationship. That arguably matters a lot more.

So extortion basically.

[original PM]

what they said was



In effect what they basically they said was that they didn't know, but maybe the UK could get away with it.

If a law is hard to understand and difficult to enforce should someone not be looking at this 'law' and saying maybe it's not worth the paper it is written on?

All 'laws' are simply rules made up by people to try and make other people do what they want.

[PurpleGorilla]

More like going into a bar with some acquaintances, have lunch with them that you expect to split the bill and they present you with the bill for today and the next ten years of lunches that you aren't invited to.

Snouts in the trough!

[BlasterBates]

Why do you just accept that at face value?

The House of Lords did some analysis and concluded that there was nothing in the existing EU treaties that could enforce a payment.

what they said was

international law is slow to litigate and hard to enforce

In effect what they basically they said was that they didn't know, but maybe the UK could get away with it.

[vetran]

More like walking into a bar - saying 'the drinks are one me' - then your wife says 'are you fooking mad'!

More like going into a bar with some acquaintances, have lunch with them that you expect to split the bill and they present you with the bill for today and the next ten years of lunches that you aren't invited to.

[original PM]

It's all politics though.

Of course the EU cannot "offer" the UK a good deal. Because that implies that there is actually a better deal that could be had by all the other member states. It would be admiting that the EU was not optimal and that a better outcome could be achieved.

Talking about "punishments" and that the UK must pay a price plays to the domestic audiences of the member states who will have to pay more to maintain the EU budget.

The politicians in the EU need to appear tough to deter others from questioning the current arrangements. The politicians in the member countries have different concerns, specifically around their own economies.

So for example I read that the UK counts for about 30% of exports for Irish farmers. Food is severly hit under WTO rules. A no-deal would have a brutal impact on the Irish. Does the EU, this magnifiicant organisation that operates with the best interest of it's people want to deliberately damage the livlihoods of Irish, French & Spanish farmers, German car workers and so on because the English made a democratic decision?

If it does then it's a funny club to want to belong to.

It cares not a jot - for the same reason it does not want to discuss the rights of EU citizens currently in the UK and vice versa.

It only cares about itself continuing as a political establishment.

The fact that they are playing with people's lives only makes it more fun for them and allows them to dream of the good old days when only special people had value and everyone else was simply there to be used and cast aside.

[PurpleGorilla]

How the EU is making a successful Brexit Difficult

The EU have presented the UK bill, obviously the UK doesn't want to pay the bill so Boris Johnson coined the term "punishment beating". However the bill is in line with International Law.

It is a bit like going into a bar, buying a round of drinks and walking out without paying.

My advice is for everyone is to tighten their belts, save up and pay their "bar bill".

More like walking into a bar - saying 'the drinks are on me' - then your wife says 'are you fooking mad'!

[motoukenin]

It's all politics though.

Of course the EU cannot "offer" the UK a good deal. Because that implies that there is actually a better deal that could be had by all the other member states. It would be admiting that the EU was not optimal and that a better outcome could be achieved.

Talking about "punishments" and that the UK must pay a price plays to the domestic audiences of the member states who will have to pay more to maintain the EU budget.

The politicians in the EU need to appear tough to deter others from questioning the current arrangements. The politicians in the member countries have different concerns, specifically around their own economies.

So for example I read that the UK counts for about 30% of exports for Irish farmers. Food is severly hit under WTO rules. A no-deal would have a brutal impact on the Irish. Does the EU, this magnifiicant organisation that operates with the best interest of it's people want to deliberately damage the livlihoods of Irish, French & Spanish farmers, German car workers and so on because the English made a democratic decision?

If it does then it's a funny club to want to belong to.

Not sure what they are doing about the Irish border but having been there a few times it would be a difficult border to regulate as in some cases farms and houses have land in both ROI and NI.
There is some discussion about putting the NI customs border back in England with all goods from NI being checked as they leave or enter there.

See your point about German car workers and EU Farmers but they have been told that the decision is with the EU council, BMW and farmers will not be part of the discussions and will have no say in the negotiations it will be a unanimous decision among EU politicians only and very few of them represent German car workers or EU farmers that trade with the UK.