HMRC Fine

[rjustice]

Hi,

There is a bit of background to this query but the short version is that I was given a SA letter after 31/1/14 for the 2012-2013 tax year. The letter stated I needed to complete it within 3 months of the date of the SA letter, which I did and I also paid my tax bill within those 3 months (it wasn’t actually tax but student loan payments). HMRC have now fined me for paying my bill after 31/1/14. I could argue I didn’t know what I had to pay until I completed my SA.

Does anyone have an opinion on whether it is worth disputing this? It’s not a great deal of money but I would prefer it in my pocket.

[TheFaQQer]

Does anyone have an opinion on whether it is worth disputing this? It’s not a great deal of money but I would prefer it in my pocket.

If you should have completed one and didn't, then you have no case to argue.

If you shouldn't have completed one but did and it was late, then you have no case to argue.

[TheCyclingProgrammer]

If you should have completed one and didn't, then you have no case to argue.

If you shouldn't have completed one but did and it was late, then you have no case to argue.

Hmm...if OP wasn't previously registered for SA then I always thought you only become liable to submit a SA once HMRC sends you a letter requesting one, which appears to be what has happened.

I also thought you had until 3 months from the date of the letter, or by 31st January after the end of the relevant tax year, whichever comes later. Which would mean the submission isn't late. Bit weird that OP has been fined if that is the case.

Not sure why OP hasn't just rung HMRC and asked them though as it may have been a simple error (e.g. it could have been automated).

[BlasterBates]

It would be simple to ring them up, this sounds like a mistake, otherwise the original letter should have stated they would impose a fine.

I presume that the fine was imposed because you submitted after 01/31 but from what I read you have to submit three months after receiving the demand, which you did.

[tractor]

...

Hmm...if OP wasn't previously registered for SA then I always thought you only become liable to submit a SA once HMRC sends you a letter requesting one, which appears to be what has happened.

I also thought you had until 3 months from the date of the letter, or by 31st January after the end of the relevant tax year, whichever comes later. Which would mean the submission isn't late. Bit weird that OP has been fined if that is the case.

Not sure why OP hasn't just rung HMRC and asked them though as it may have been a simple error (e.g. it could have been automated).

Self Assessment

"But you may need to complete a tax return if you have more complicated tax affairs, even if you already pay tax through your tax code. There are also certain circumstances in which you will always need to complete a tax return - for example if you're:

self-employed
a company director
a trustee
receiving foreign income"


If your circumstances change e.g. you recently became a director, you should have told them and they would have sent you a return or notice for online filing during the due year.

But as CP says, you should check it with them.

[northernladuk]

Yeah but the director reason isn't strictly true as we discussed in some detail..

CBA to find exact threads but here is a search for all SA questions with the word director mention (which is probably all of them but hey ho. Will pass the time)

https://www.google.co.uk/search?q=di...oAw&gws_rd=ssl

[tractor]

...

Yeah but the director reason isn't strictly true as we discussed in some detail..

CBA to find exact threads but here is a search for all SA questions with the word director mention (which is probably all of them but hey ho. Will pass the time)

https://www.google.co.uk/search?q=di...oAw&gws_rd=ssl

I understand but this is a question about the need to fill in a return, not which boxes need to be completed depending on your circumstances.

[TheCyclingProgrammer]

I understand but this is a question about the need to fill in a return, not which boxes need to be completed depending on your circumstances.

What NLUK means is there is no legal requirement for director's to file a tax return (as being a director doesn't necessarily mean you'll be chargeable to tax beyond what is deducted at source). Its been discussed on here many times.

However, in practice is while being a director in itself places no legal requirement to notify HMRC that you need to file a tax return, HMRC do prefer directors to do so (as evidenced by the bit on their website you quoted) and their internal policy/manuals would indicate that its a very likely trigger for HMRC to request you do one.

So there shouldn't be any failure to notify penalty (unless you were actually chargeable to tax), but its likely the reason why HMRC have sent a notice to file a return to OP.

[TheCyclingProgrammer]

As for the deadline for filing your return:

HM Revenue & Customs: Tax return deadlines and penalties

Your online tax return must reach HMRC by midnight on 31 January.
So for the 2013-14 tax year, the deadline for online returns is midnight on 31 January 2015. There are very few exceptions. As an example, the deadline may be later if it's after 31 October when HMRC sends you the letter telling you to complete a tax return. In this case the letter will tell you the deadline - it is usually 3 months from the date of the letter.

This would seem to indicate that OP shouldn't have received a penalty and it was probably issued in error.

This is assuming OP didn't receive an earlier notification that they aren't telling us about or weren't aware of.

Once again, this can probably all be resolved with a quick call to HMRC.

[Taita]

Yeah but the director reason isn't strictly true as we discussed in some detail..

CBA to find exact threads but here is a search for all SA questions with the word director mention (which is probably all of them but hey ho. Will pass the time)

https://www.google.co.uk/search?q=di...oAw&gws_rd=ssl

HM Revenue & Customs: Do you need to complete a tax return?
Directors are required to complete a tax return.