Originally posted by Clare@InTouch
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Reply to: HMRC Fine
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Previously on "HMRC Fine"
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Originally posted by rjustice View PostHi,
There is a bit of background to this query but the short version is that I was given a SA letter after 31/1/14 for the 2012-2013 tax year. The letter stated I needed to complete it within 3 months of the date of the SA letter, which I did and I also paid my tax bill within those 3 months (it wasn’t actually tax but student loan payments). HMRC have now fined me for paying my bill after 31/1/14. I could argue I didn’t know what I had to pay until I completed my SA.
Does anyone have an opinion on whether it is worth disputing this? It’s not a great deal of money but I would prefer it in my pocket.
I'd say it is better not to dispute, especially if it is a small amount.
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Originally posted by TheFaQQer View PostThat does imply that the OP should have done one anyway, whether they were a director or not - they had a tax liability which needed to be self-assessed, so they needed to do one.
Although that same page also seems to indicate that the payment due date can also be after 31st Jan if they request a SA from you after 31 October. *shrugs*
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Originally posted by jamesbrown View PostYep, nothing special about directors. This is just HMRC procedure. I think this is the relevant part of the TMA:
Taxes Management Act 1970
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The fine appears to be for late payment, not late filing
The fine appears to be for late payment, not late filing according to the first post.
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Nice that you have spent all that time looking in to the threads I posted and come to the conclusion that what Taita put isn't completely true and could have found the same looking through the history as you did.
I appreciate the time you spent on it though TF. Very commendable.
Threads gone to the dogs so that's me done.Last edited by northernladuk; 30 June 2014, 18:26.
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Yep, nothing special about directors. This is just HMRC procedure. I think this is the relevant part of the TMA:
http://www.legislation.gov.uk/ukpga/...tion/7/enacted
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Originally posted by northernladuk View PostRead what TCP put and read some of threads in the link I put and you will realise that you look a little bit silly now.
Originally posted by northernladuk View PostYou could try using google and go read the basics on the HMRC website.
Feel silly yet?
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Originally posted by northernladuk View PostI'll let you two sort it out.
If you look at the first thread in the search results that you link to, you see this:
Originally posted by Clare@InTouch View PostYou should have informed HMRC that you needed a tax return, the onus is on YOU to contact them. Give them a call and tell them you're a director of a limited company - 0845 9000 444. You're supposed to register within 3 months of becoming a director. HM Revenue & Customs: Registering for Self Assessment
If you started in March 2010 then you should have filed a tax return for 2009/10, which was due at HMRC by 31 January 2011. If there was no tax to pay then you can appeal any penalty and they should reduce it to zero.
Might be an idea to talk to an accountant too
Originally posted by Clare@InTouch View PostThat's per HMRC guidance. The actual LAW doesn't include directors as a category of people who need to file. It's HMRC basing their guidance on their wish list, kinda like they do with the Business Entity Tests.
Never assume HMRC are right. They publish their interpretation of the law, which isn't always correct.
To try to make out that a contractor looks "a bit silly" for making the same mistake that professionals have made is more than a bit silly.
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Originally posted by northernladuk View PostRead what TCP put and read some of threads in the link I put and you will realise that you look a little bit silly now.
Most accountants on here will recommend registering as there will often be a good reason to besides being a company director. But if, for example, you were a director of a company with no shareholding and no remuneration (including expenses) and all of your other income was taxed at source, there would be zero point (or legal requirement) to register as you'd just be filing a nil return each year.
For the record, the only (legal) reason to register for self-assessment is if you are chargeable to tax. More specifically, if you're chargeable to tax you have a legal requirement to notify HMRC - this may not result in having to register for self-assessment if the amount of tax is below a certain threshold as HMRC may be able to adjust your tax code instead (which results in less hassle for everybody).Last edited by TheCyclingProgrammer; 30 June 2014, 16:49.
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Originally posted by TheFaQQer View PostHow silly Taita must feel believing the HMRC website rather than just taking the words of random strangers on the internet at face value
Up until very recently, some of the accountants (including those who have posted in this thread) have said the same thing (that a director needs to complete a self assessment) only to be corrected by TCP. Maybe you should go through all their posts which said this and tell them that they look silly?That's per HMRC guidance. The actual LAW doesn't include directors as a category of people who need to file. It's HMRC basing their guidance on their wish list, kinda like they do with the Business Entity Tests.
Never assume HMRC are right. They publish their interpretation of the law, which isn't always correct.
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Originally posted by northernladuk View PostRead what TCP put and read some of threads in the link I put and you will realise that you look a little bit silly now.
Up until very recently, some of the accountants (including those who have posted in this thread) have said the same thing (that a director needs to complete a self assessment) only to be corrected by TCP. Maybe you should go through all their posts which said this and tell them that they look silly?
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Originally posted by Taita View PostHM Revenue & Customs: Do you need to complete a tax return?
Directors are required to complete a tax return.
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Originally posted by Taita View PostHM Revenue & Customs: Do you need to complete a tax return?
Directors are required to complete a tax return.
Never assume HMRC are right. They publish their interpretation of the law, which isn't always correct.
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