BN66 - Court of Appeal and beyond

[nick4notax]

I have added my vote to the contribution to lobbying thread.

My position regarding the situation is that the law was changed in 2008/9 and that's fine. I left the MP scheme in 2006 as I could see that things were getting angry and I saw no point in waiting for the axe to fall. MP said to me before joining the scheme they would only have a maximum of 1,000 people on it so that they would not attract attention. It seems they more or less stuck to that number, perhaps up to 1,300 from what earlier posts have said.

Obviously I agree that to change the law retrospectively is morally unacceptable, particularly as I'd left the scheme over 2 years earlier.

I am prepared to negotiate with HMRC but I've no idea if they'd be prepared to negotiate with me. My standpoint is that the starting point is the value of the tax calculated as being due while with MP now that the law has changed. What I cannot stomach (or indeed afford) is charging interest on money that was not due at the time. I would be prepared to accept interest being charged from the date the law was changed. I'm not sure what that date officially is but it may be from when it received Royal Ascent. The question of NI contributions concerns me too. I paid NI contributions on the amount of income not put through MP like everyone else. If NI contributions are due on the amount put through MP then that would push the individual's contributions above the maximum limit for the years in question. So again, my point of view is that it's OK to charge NI contributions but only up to the maximum for an individual.

Whatever that total comes to would be an acceptable base to me (as I said, I don't expect HMRC to agree very readily to it but that is my starting point). Depending upon the amount, I would propose to pay it over a period of 4 to 5 years. Quicker than that, I can't do.

If all of that is unacceptable to HMRC, then someone will be calling in the Official Receiver and we'll be going down the bankruptcy route. I would like to avoid it as I believe my proposal is reasonable but I simply dont know how they will react to it.

For reasons completely unrelated to this, I sold my house a long time ago, dont own a car, have no assets that I am aware of and no income to speak of any more so HMRC really would get nothing. I dont know if that would matter to them.

You might ask how I would propose to pay HMRC given my current situation. I hope to re-establish myself before too long and my wife is prepared to make a certain level of contributions on my behalf until I do. However, she has no obligation to do this. It's in the interests of avoiding my bankruptcy. All of this depends upon HMRC being prepared to be reasonable which we will just have to wait and see.

I suspect there would be quite a number of people who would be prepared to make similiar proposals to HMRC rather than go bankrupt but we don't yet know how hard their line will be. If they play hard ball with no deals, then there will be a lot of pain and suffering. I'm not especially hopeful, but this is where I stand.

I heard that there are no offers to any MP clients, at all.

Personally, I am not ready to offer any money to them at all. After all, we've done nothing wrong!! It's appealing to some to consider paying something just to be free of this nightmare, but I really don't think whatever concessions might possibly be available would be worth it anyway.

For me, I'm in it to the end, in it to win it, blah blah,,,

Please, let's all try to stay positive

[BrilloPad]

Please, let's all try to stay positive

Personally I prefer to run round in circles pulling my hair shouting "PANIC PANIC".

[swede]

I heard that there are no offers to any MP clients, at all.

Personally, I am not ready to offer any money to them at all. After all, we've done nothing wrong!! It's appealing to some to consider paying something just to be free of this nightmare, but I really don't think whatever concessions might possibly be available would be worth it anyway.

For me, I'm in it to the end, in it to win it, blah blah,,,

Please, let's all try to stay positive

Amen to that. Not a penny.

[Ninja]

Amen to that. Not a penny.

Not while there's breath in my body!
I'd rather give all my money away to charity, or go to Las vegas

[Oakleyacc]

All for staying positive

I am all for staying positive however the fact that I disagree with what is happening to us on moral grounds doesn't change the law of the land. I've said where I stand but that doesn't mean that HMRC have to negotiate. I think we may now be relying upon our MP's to lobby for an amendment to the law but that seems less likely than winning the court cases, of which we lost both. I'm sure that there are discussions going on behind closed doors and I certainly hope that something comes of them.

However it looks as though HMRC are not hanging about so for us to get more time to push for a better solution, our appeals need to be upheld when we come before the Tax Tribunals. This could well happen but I'm not qualified to comment on the technicalities.

I suppose in my case it's a bit of fear of the unknown. I do not know what is involved in going bankrupt; how unpleasant it may be. A bit like going to the dentist. Never an enjoyable experience but sometimes not as bad as expected. So if HMRC are not doing any deals with us, then I will have to bite the bullet.

So I will remain positive for as long as there are things to be done but it the meantime I will work on my fears !

[Ganimos]

FEAR

I am all for staying positive however the fact that I disagree with what is happening to us on moral grounds doesn't change the law of the land. I've said where I stand but that doesn't mean that HMRC have to negotiate. I think we may now be relying upon our MP's to lobby for an amendment to the law but that seems less likely than winning the court cases, of which we lost both. I'm sure that there are discussions going on behind closed doors and I certainly hope that something comes of them.

However it looks as though HMRC are not hanging about so for us to get more time to push for a better solution, our appeals need to be upheld when we come before the Tax Tribunals. This could well happen but I'm not qualified to comment on the technicalities.

I suppose in my case it's a bit of fear of the unknown. I do not know what is involved in going bankrupt; how unpleasant it may be. A bit like going to the dentist. Never an enjoyable experience but sometimes not as bad as expected. So if HMRC are not doing any deals with us, then I will have to bite the bullet.

So I will remain positive for as long as there are things to be done but it the meantime I will work on my fears !

Feed your faith and your fears will starve to death.

[travellingknob]

I would be prepared to accept interest being charged from the date the law was changed. I'm not sure what that date officially is but it may be from when it received Royal Ascent.

Assuming of course the tribunals find the law changed in tax year 2008-9 then interest only starts from 31st Jan 2010 when the tax became due.

[Dieselpower]

Assuming of course the tribunals find the law changed in tax year 2008-9 then interest only starts from 31st Jan 2010 when the tax became due.

Thats a very good point!

[nick4notax]

Perhaps......

Perhaps, the Tribunals will not allow the retro law change to apply to claims already submitted before that law received Royal ascent. Now wouldn't that be nice....??!!

[blabla]

Letters to MP's

Apologies if this is already covered but does anyone (DR?) have a 'standard' letter detailing the points we want to put to all our MP's? I will defintely send one off to mine and look to get a meeting in. My MP is Justine Greening - anyone else have her / or had contact with her about this?

Thanks for everyone's efforts.