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BN66 - Court of Appeal and beyond

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    A different tack...

    Not so much different as an additional tack...

    Everyone I speak to face to face about this cannot believe it. I know that Joe public will see us as tax dodgers when they read an article but why when I speak to anyone are they sympathetic and see it as outrageous. It is because I can explain what the real problem is here without spin and in layman terms. Perhaps we can use it to get friends/families to write to MPs, especially if they are in a particular constituency ?

    Anyway this is an email which pretty much outlines the issues in my/layman terms...

    Subject: Unprecedented Retrospective law changes are bankrupting individuals. Who is next ?

    Hi,

    Some very close family/friends/colleagues of mine are being affected by an unprecedented change in the law that has been applied retrospectively. That is to say, something that was legal in 2001 was made illegal in 2008 and applied back to 1987. Thousands of individuals are affected, a lot of whom will be made bankrupt. The worst part is that it was not news in 2008 to the relevant bodies who proposed the change in law. Norman Lamont commented on it in 1987 and its use was known to HMRC since at least 2002.

    The change is in the form of Section 58 of the Finance Act 2008, details and commentaries of which can be found in some links below. What is important is that something which was according to the law whilst being carried out is made illegal at a later date, with retrospective affect. On top of this, interest is being charged on the amount now "due", also backdated to 1987. It is this interest which will bankrupt most. It puts the amount owed by many into the hundreds of thousands of pounds. All of these self employed individuals are regular, middle class folk.

    The law was passed through parliament as a "clarification" but has since been identified as pure and full retrospection. The time has come where HMRC are demanding the money and there is only a short window to make a change.

    The recent Barclays retrospective tax situation was backdated by 3 months, to when the change was first voiced. This is very different to 21 years. Couple that with the fact that this is individuals who will suffer along with their families (not a faceless bank) is a very worrying precedent to set. It will raise the goverment millions of pounds, so the motive seems clear.

    What is next ? 20mph Speed limits backdated to 1995 or a 30% lower tax rate backdated to 2005. Watch out for those retrospective speeding fines or tax demands. These are extreme examples but there are many grey areas in between and the law is the law and should not be changed retrospectively to this degree, and without warning.

    Many financial, business and humanitarian institutions are at least concerned for the precedent and most condemn it including: Chartered Institute of Taxation, The Joint Committee for Human Rights, The Institute of Chartered Accountants in England and Wales and many more. Even many MPs were opposed to the retrospective legislation and amendments were tabled in 2008 to remove the retrospective aspect but these were ignored.

    Please write to your MP as a review is being carried out now. It can be done electronically: WriteToThem - Email or fax your Councillor, MP, MEP, MSP or Welsh, NI, London Assembly Member for free. Feel free to copy and paste most of this note. Those affected would be very grateful and this could work to save you and others from being affected by a similar atrocity in the future. Please, also feel free to forward this on to gain awareness.

    Many thanks

    BBC News - Will retrospective taxes affect us all?
    Jill Kirby: Retrospective legislation may produce applause today but it will damage Britain in the years to come Conservative Home Columnists
    http://www.tax.org.uk/Resources/CIOT...OT%20Nov10.pdf - see P8, 7.4.
    BN66 timeline : Freelance Supermarket
    http://www.tax.org.uk/Resources/CIOT...egislation.pdf
    MPs to investigate retrospective tax after government avoidance crackdown at Barclays - Telegraph
    Director of Finance Online - Blogs - The Edge » Blog Archive » Backdating tax is bad
    http://www.freshfields.com/publicati.../nov08/BTR.pdf
    Last edited by TalkingCheese; 9 March 2012, 12:16. Reason: Not different but additional tack
    http://notoretrotax.org.uk/

    Comment


      Letter sent - we need to do our bit

      Long time lurker..... decided to do my bit.
      Email sent to my local MP (Nadine Dorries - Conversative)
      Keep up the good work and good luck to all!!!

      Comment


        Just a thought

        Originally posted by Toocan View Post
        The current DTA scheme was either new or it was a modificaiton of the Padmore scheme. When the Padmore scheme was closed retrospective legislation was used but it was used in a way that meant that no one paid any more tax. The retrospection simply prevented people who had not made a claim from then making one.

        It is HMRC who are at fault here - they have misrepresented the Padmore legislation (which they did not even mention to us prior to section 58) to Parliament in order to get section 58 enacted. That complaint can only be made to your Member of Parliament.
        In a previous post DR stated dont get too hung up on the facts JUST make the point and get the letter sent to your MP. On one level i entirely agree BUT when it comes to making a complaint to your MP with a view to him putting pressure on Gauke and/or Treasury Committee to change the law THEN i think the facts are very important.

        For example - playing the Devil's advocate - i attended every telephone conference with Tax Counsel when the scheme was devised (January to March 2001). AND i can say that TOOCAN is incorrect. HMRC published a document in their international tax manual (circa 1998) that discussed Padmore and also referred to a scheme that they were aware of that used the main ingredients of the scheme outlawed by BN66. I know that the scheme described by HMRC back in 1998 was used for land transactions in 1999 (i guess these are the clients that are being represented by KPMG re BN66).
        The point i am trying to make is that the Treasury Committee will give HMRC "a right of reply" SO the points being made to fight your corner should be one's that cannot be easily dealt with by HMRC.

        I believe the strongest point you have is .... it has been mentioned on this board but out of context.

        Comment


          Originally posted by DonkeyRhubarb View Post
          I've asked several times over the past few years but the answer has always been No.

          I get the impression that they're not wildly enthusiastic about the forum, so probably the last thing they'd want to do is direct more clients to it.
          Shame... Word of mouth it is then!

          Unless any web savvy folks on here have some ideas for upping the hit count of this thread and/or a website highlighting our plight?

          Comment


            Dam* Right!

            Originally posted by TalkingCheese View Post
            Everyone I speak to face to face about this cannot believe it. I know that Joe public will see us as tax dodgers when they read an article but why when I speak to anyone are they sympathetic and see it as outrageous.]
            What swung it for me were the words 'retrospective' & 'clarification'.

            I didn't believe 'retrospective', and believed 'clarification' even less.

            Any Joe Public who was Not Born Yesterday knows when a shafting is in progress. And this has all the hallmarks.

            Comment


              Originally posted by Fireship View Post
              Shame... Word of mouth it is then!

              Unless any web savvy folks on here have some ideas for upping the hit count of this thread and/or a website highlighting our plight?
              A Google search for BN66 already lists this forum. I can't believe that in this technological world we live in, there are people out there who haven't stumbled upon this forum, unless when they heard the news in 2008, they went to live in a cave like a hermit
              'Orwell's 1984 was supposed to be a warning, not an instruction manual'. -
              Nick Pickles, director of Big Brother Watch.

              Comment


                Originally posted by ir35amnesia View Post
                In a previous post DR stated dont get too hung up on the facts JUST make the point and get the letter sent to your MP. On one level i entirely agree BUT when it comes to making a complaint to your MP with a view to him putting pressure on Gauke and/or Treasury Committee to change the law THEN i think the facts are very important.
                I suppose the problem I have is that I can't see the Government reversing BN66. In the current climate it would be political suicide to be seen accommodating "tax dodgers". There's also the small matter of the £300M they think it will raise.

                According to HMRC there are 3000 people in the scheme. At the moment they have no idea what the breakdown is of "can pays" to "can't pays".

                If the majority of people can pay then there isn't a problem. On the other hand, if a high % of people can't pay then this starts to become politically sensitive.

                Levying a retrospective tax is one thing.

                Levying a retrospective tax that bankrupts 1000 people is another.

                Comment


                  Originally posted by DonkeyRhubarb View Post
                  I suppose the problem I have is that I can't see the Government reversing BN66. In the current climate it would be political suicide to be seen accommodating "tax dodgers". There's also the small matter of the £300M they think it will raise.

                  According to HMRC there are 3000 people in the scheme. At the moment they have no idea what the breakdown is of "can pays" to "can't pays".

                  If the majority of people can pay then there isn't a problem. On the other hand, if a high % of people can't pay then this starts to become politically sensitive.

                  Levying a retrospective tax is one thing.

                  Levying a retrospective tax that bankrupts 1000 people is another.
                  Given nobody knows about these 3000 contractors and the only thing in the press has been about Barclays getting done for a minor bit of retrospection, they could reverse it quite easily if they set their minds to it. And yes, there may be the odd report about tax dodgers but hopefully there may be some reporting about the unfairness of retrospection.

                  Comment


                    Originally posted by SantaClaus View Post
                    A Google search for BN66 already lists this forum. I can't believe that in this technological world we live in, there are people out there who haven't stumbled upon this forum, unless when they heard the news in 2008, they went to live in a cave like a hermit
                    I think the problem is that too many people have simply stuck their head in the sand and are hoping this goes away – maybe spending time reading forums such as this stresses them out too much so they’d rather pretend all is well and naively wait for the “we won” letter from MP… (which incidentally I still believe will be the case, it just won’t happen in time to prevent HMRC bankrupting us out of spite!)

                    I have to agree with TalkingCheese, if we want plenty of letters writing them it’s time for those of us actively doing something to bolster our numbers with friends and family!!!
                    Last edited by Fireship; 9 March 2012, 15:07. Reason: not done yet ;-)

                    Comment


                      Originally posted by Fireship View Post
                      (which incidentally I still believe will be the case, it just won’t happen in time to prevent HMRC bankrupting us out of spite!)
                      That's when it becomes a rags to riches story when we all sue the ar$e of HMRC
                      MUTS likes it Hot

                      Comment

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