Rates: Day v hour rates

[NorthWestPerm2Contr]

Offer withdrawn Client told agent to withdraw my offer because I "wasn't flexible enough". I think they might struggle to get an experienced contractor to stay, especially for what is a very tough project that needs a very firm pair of hands in charge.

Rate isn't the big issue for me, I'll happily come right down the rates for a good local role for a company that treats contractors with respect but I'll expect very good money to work for iffy companies, especially if there's a decent commute/stay away involved. £420 a day is bottom-end for a contract like this.

I'm reviewing the confidentiality agreement now, if I can find a loophole then I'll name and shame agency and client. Unlikely though as it's a very sensitive project and they want complete confidentiality.

Thanks for all the advice, made my decision easier and made me think I'm less of a primadonna for holding out.

Day rate is pretty good in current climate, but only for reasonable hours (though I guess it does depend on the area). Not really worth it for anything more than 8 hours a day and with a tough commute it would be devastating.

[css_jay99]

Offer withdrawn Client told agent to withdraw my offer because I "wasn't flexible enough". I think they might struggle to get an experienced contractor to stay, especially for what is a very tough project that needs a very firm pair of hands in charge.

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It sound to me like the Agent was trying to line his own pocket and found another mug to dance to his tunes.

Hold your head up and keep looking. Agents can be scum at times


css_jay99

[billybiro]

Offer withdrawn Client told agent to withdraw my offer because I "wasn't flexible enough". I think they might struggle to get an experienced contractor to stay, especially for what is a very tough project that needs a very firm pair of hands in charge.

Rate isn't the big issue for me, I'll happily come right down the rates for a good local role for a company that treats contractors with respect but I'll expect very good money to work for iffy companies, especially if there's a decent commute/stay away involved. £420 a day is bottom-end for a contract like this.

I'm reviewing the confidentiality agreement now, if I can find a loophole then I'll name and shame agency and client. Unlikely though as it's a very sensitive project and they want complete confidentiality.

Thanks for all the advice, made my decision easier and made me think I'm less of a primadonna for holding out.

This is precisely the reason I always insist (but don't always get - hey ho) an hourly rate rather than a day rate.

Sure, I lose out slightly if I finish early on one particular day, but it cuts cr*p like this right down. None of this "standard" daily rate, but we expect you to work 1.5 x "standard" daily hours for it.

I, too, will happily work a long working day but like yourself, I'll insist on being paid for it and an hourly rate guarantees that.

[craig1]

Day rate is pretty good in current climate, but only for reasonable hours (though I guess it does depend on the area). Not really worth it for anything more than 8 hours a day and with a tough commute it would be devastating.

If it were £420 a day for a generic infrastructure PM role then I'd agree it is decent but it's for a very niche role requiring specific experience on a high-risk "bet the company" project. If I were the recruitment agent, based on my previous experience, I'd be pushing back at the client for £500-£600 per day minimum for a contractor rate. I only considered it in the first place because I prefer taking challenging roles to yet another mind-numbing infrastructure upgrade.

It's a 90 minute each way commute then you've got the particular niceties of commuting to Cambridge to consider. Hard to explain unless you have experience of commuting to Cambridge.

[craig1]

This is precisely the reason I always insist (but don't always get - hey ho) an hourly rate rather than a day rate.

Sure, I lose out slightly if I finish early on one particular day, but it cuts cr*p like this right down. None of this "standard" daily rate, but we expect you to work 1.5 x "standard" daily hours for it.

I, too, will happily work a long working day but like yourself, I'll insist on being paid for it and an hourly rate guarantees that.

I don't mind daily rates, makes invoicing easier for me, but I do insist on a defined "day". I'll happily work over that time on a condition that it's on an informal flexi-time basis, they don't complain about me taking the occasional half-day off for dentist appointments, accountant meetings or so on and I don't complain about putting in an extra long shift to compensate. You have to have a client manager who you can trust though for an arrangement like that. A few years ago I did one very urgent rollout where I did 5 16 hour days in a week, I took off one Monday a week for the five weeks after that but still billed for it, client happily counter-signed every invoice without complaint.

Contracting can be fun if you have a good working relationship with the client. Being pedantic is rarely enjoyable for either side although some client managers seem to get chubbies from getting every last ounce of sweat out of their contractors.

[Ignis Fatuus]

Thanks for that!

Progress since my first post. Call from agent that they've agreed to change to hourly rates but at no more than day rate/10. I told them it was unacceptable and that I'd prefer day/7.5. Agent unwilling to go back to the client with that.

As it's a potentially interesting role with new challenges, I relented and said I'd be prepared to do a one-off deal of an hourly rate of day/8.75 with a cap of 50 hours per week then day/5 for everything over. Agent still unwilling so I told him that if the client won't go to that then the excess can either come off the agent's cut or put a hard working hour cap of 50 hours and day/8.5.

Agent's exact words were: "why are you being so difficult over this"

I think I'll be having more time for Christmas shopping then

Situation pretty clear. You are (were) being set up for 10-12+ hour days at a low (hourly) rate.

"why are you being so difficult over this" = "why won't you let me shaft you". When an agent starts lecturing you on how to do your contracting, walk away, but not slowly.

[VectraMan]

I'd rather work on a day rate, although most of my contracts have been per hour. I'd rather do the work as if it was a full time job, without worrying about doing exact hours or feeling I have to pad out the day to make it up to the 8 hours (which is usually what seems to happen).

There's always the argument about long hours, but I don't want to be doing regular 12 hour days even if I'm being paid extra for it. But I don't mind a one off if it's for an important reason.

This really all comes down to whether you have a good working relationship with the client, and it seems likely in this situation that was never going to happen.

[Pondlife]

Well done for sticking to your guns. Obviously a healthy warchest helps at time like these and so congrats for playing the 'contracting game' with a sensible outlook.

I always seem to have a day rate offered but with a stipulation that it's for a 'professional working day' and as other posters have said it's about building a relationship with your client. I'm happy to go to a meeting at 6pm when working away or pull the occaisonal late night when required but I also don't expect an earful from my client if I leave to go to the dentist for an hour on a Friday.

If they said from the off that the expectation is 10-12 hours per day as the norm, then that IMHO is not a prof working day.

You did the right thing.

Best of luck with the new hunt.

[TykeMerc]

Sensible call Craig, if you can't get terms you like then you've not reached agreement and there isn't a contract.

I've stuck to my guns on a few occasions, sometimes its paid off, othertimes there's no contract.

[d000hg]

Craig I think you played it well, shame it didn't go your way but having a decent warchest lets you avoid taking any old role.

I wouldn't automatically assume it's bad management that they expect long hours from the off, it may be there is a backlog of work from someone else screwing up in the same role and bailing. But it's sensible to be cautious/suspicious.