BN66 - Time to fight back (Chapter 3)

[poppy01]

From a personal point of view I would like to see that challenged.

Certainly some time ago when I was investigated they used discovery to go back 6 years and disallowed a few things (like rent a room relief). When all the dust had settled and I had changed accountants my new accountant was absolutely adamant that I could - and should - have refused to accept the assessments for earlier years. He was convinced that I would have won at commissioners, though I guess I'll never know.

I may be wrong but I got the impression from earlier posts (sorry can't remember when) that MP were challenging such 'discovery' re-opened assessments (I had one reopened 3 years after the close off date) differently, I took it to mean they were challenging the legitimacy of re-opening them at all.

[Emigre]

I may be wrong but I got the impression from earlier posts (sorry can't remember when) that MP were challenging such 'discovery' re-opened assessments (I had one reopened 3 years after the close off date) differently, I took it to mean they were challenging the legitimacy of re-opening them at all.

MP's focus just now is on winning the JR. Once we have won and HMRC are told to accept it there is nothing to discover so no challenge needed. The discovery issue relates to a few people for a few years and challenges now would only get in the way of everything else. If we lose all the legal challenges on the legality of the scheme and our human rights then is the right time to tell HMRC to get stuffed regarding late discoveries.

I appreciate to some it would be good to know that their liability was reduced in any event but I cannot see it happening.

[bombaycat]

hey if we lose Im getting on the phone to taxaid, buy myself a hundred cats and fill my flat with random pieces of wood and shopping trolleys.

bl00dy h3ll I already have 5 cats - just need to pop down to tescos for the trolleys...I even live within walking distance of where old Mr Trebus of Life of Grime used to live....

[poppy01]

MP's focus just now is on winning the JR. Once we have won and HMRC are told to accept it there is nothing to discover so no challenge needed. The discovery issue relates to a few people for a few years and challenges now would only get in the way of everything else. If we lose all the legal challenges on the legality of the scheme and our human rights then is the right time to tell HMRC to get stuffed regarding late discoveries.

I appreciate to some it would be good to know that their liability was reduced in any event but I cannot see it happening.

makes sense, cheers

[DonkeyRhubarb]

Angry

Got my CNs over the weekend. The figures for tax/nic were significantly higher than the previous estimates I received from HMRC in 2006, to the tune of over £5000. Montp have checked and it turns out that HMRC cocked up the original estimates and miscalculated NIC.

What's more, the interest is a fcuking insult. It works out at just shy of 50% on the 2001/2 return.

Now, how can I get back at the b*stards...

[bananarepublic]

Originally there was no NIC on the trust income - this is something that HMRC have decided quite recently in their wisdom to add on. In my case I had employment income in the first and last years I was in the scheme and the NIC charge adds insult to injury as in the first year I had already paid up to the NIC thresholds so I have been double charged then 40%+ interest added on top! [ I think that the NIC can be reclaimed, not sure about the interest though ]

Checked on the HMRC portal the other night and my amount outstanding has gone from 0 to a very big figure indeed - 2001/02 through 2006/07. The total interest portion adds about 35% to the total. Expecting a closure notice in the next couple of days, if of course they deign to send me one.

By my reckoning this will go on for at least another 6 years. Think about all the things they have got to argue about -
a) BN66 retrospection via UK courts
b) BN66 retrospection via ECHR
c) Applicability of law to trust income (irrespective of whether we win either a) or b))
d) Application of NIC
e) HR implications of settlement offered in 2003 to similar scheme

I have held a stock of CTD's from 2003 onwards which assuming we lose will save me a lot of interest. Considering whether to buy CTD's to cover the rest, write the whole lot off in my mind and move on. Expect that when we win the cash tied up not to be worth very much though.

[poppy01]

Originally there was no NIC on the trust income - this is something that HMRC have decided quite recently in their wisdom to add on. In my case I had employment income in the first and last years I was in the scheme and the NIC charge adds insult to injury as in the first year I had already paid up to the NIC thresholds so I have been double charged then 40%+ interest added on top! [ I think that the NIC can be reclaimed, not sure about the interest though ]

Checked on the HMRC portal the other night and my amount outstanding has gone from 0 to a very big figure indeed - 2001/02 through 2006/07. The total interest portion adds about 35% to the total. Expecting a closure notice in the next couple of days, if of course they deign to send me one.

By my reckoning this will go on for at least another 6 years. Think about all the things they have got to argue about -
a) BN66 retrospection via UK courts
b) BN66 retrospection via ECHR
c) Applicability of law to trust income (irrespective of whether we win either a) or b))
d) Application of NIC
e) HR implications of settlement offered in 2003 to similar scheme

I have held a stock of CTD's from 2003 onwards which assuming we lose will save me a lot of interest. Considering whether to buy CTD's to cover the rest, write the whole lot off in my mind and move on. Expect that when we win the cash tied up not to be worth very much though.

add to that list reopening closed returns on the basis of 'discovery', in some cases 3 years after closure date

[ASB]

I think that the NIC can be reclaimed, not sure about the interest though.

There is a procedure for reclaiming NIC if you have paid NIC on > thresholds - which can of course happen if you have two jobs etc. The interest on the NIC is then invalid. You used to have to write to the contributions agency detailing the NIC paid and explaining why it was wrong, though this might have changed.

Whether or not it can even potentially be subject to NIC is a different thing, the regulatations are different. Though I'm sure MP will be looking into this as well.

[bananarepublic]

There is a procedure for reclaiming NIC if you have paid NIC on > thresholds - which can of course happen if you have two jobs etc. The interest on the NIC is then invalid. You used to have to write to the contributions agency detailing the NIC paid and explaining why it was wrong, though this might have changed.

Whether or not it can even potentially be subject to NIC is a different thing, the regulatations are different. Though I'm sure MP will be looking into this as well.

The NIC is only reclaimable if we lose. I did ask HMRC to re-calculate my liability without the NIC that I had overpaid, but they said that although they were able to calculate it and add it on they weren't able to take it off! They refered me to the contributions agency instead.

Of course if we lose, in the dim and distant future I am fully expecting that I will be outside some or other time window for reclaiming

[BrilloPad]

Now, how can I get back at the b*stards...

We will have our day. Alas it wont be for a few years.