BN66 - Time to fight back (Chapter 3)

[ASB]

Parliament intended taxpayers to achieve certainty in the self assessment tax system

What on earth makes you think that? We were moving away from a system of certainty to one that is inherently uncertain. Yes, I accept that reopening of returns as "discovery" without said discovery is fundamentally wrong - but it happens all the time and can be difficult to challenge.

What is also particularly galling is that an individual taxpayer is expected to know and understand all relevant tax law and how it applies to them, whilst HMRC do not appear to have the same responsibility. In any event if there are very few things they will give you a pre-transaction opinion on and there is actually nothing they will give a ruling on - they onlt ever express an opinion anyway.

[Toocan]

Is there a classification for MP's claiming to much expenses ????

I believe the classification is called "Labour".

[Toocan]

What on earth makes you think that?

The debate that Parliament had when Self Assessment was introduced.

HMRC are not following the sprit of the law, and yet they are trying to use that argument against others.

I think that is, at the least, hypocritical.

[seadog]

Just shows what Treasury can do if it want to.

Interesting article in one of my mags this morning.

Treasury helps out large employer to get £60M from Icelandic banks but wont help cancer charity.

Just shows what Treasury can do if it want to.

http://www.crainsmanchesterbusiness....2/newsletter01

[Emigre]

Interesting article in one of my mags this morning.

Treasury helps out large employer to get £60M from Icelandic banks but wont help cancer charity.

Just shows what Treasury can do if it want to.

http://www.crainsmanchesterbusiness....2/newsletter01

This Government really seems to struggle with the concept of precedent. Either in creating them or adhering to them. A law unto themselves.

[MrX]

Fyi

I received closure notices on Friday for 2005-6 and 2006-7. Figures roughly in line with expectations. I have forwarded the letter to NW & TQ and have just written to my MP.

[ASB]

The debate that Parliament had when Self Assessment was introduced.

HMRC are not following the sprit of the law, and yet they are trying to use that argument against others.

I think that is, at the least, hypocritical.

Unfortunately the debate is not improtant It's only what makes it into the act that matters.

In any event, I agree with you. It is supposed to achieve certainty and HMRC avoid that. This was a substantial tenet of the debate. Prior to self asessment there was certainty and post self asessment there must also be. Hence the limited time after filing for HMRC to open an enquiry. But, they do abuse this. Personally I believe discovery should only apply to undeclared income. The fact that you may have claimed reliefs to which you were not entitled is an HMRC problem. They should have checked trhe bloody return

Certainly in terms of users of the MP Scheme, I believe they should have filed an SA return, they should have included partnership income and they should also have included the claim under the DTA. If they have done this then I do not believe that HMRC can legitimately cite discovery to go back - they haven't dfiscovered anything, they had been explicity told but simply chose to ignore it.

[MuddyFunster]

Certainly in terms of users of the MP Scheme, I believe they should have filed an SA return, they should have included partnership income and they should also have included the claim under the DTA. If they have done this then I do not believe that HMRC can legitimately cite discovery to go back - they haven't dfiscovered anything, they had been explicity told but simply chose to ignore it.

This is what we did do. MontP filed our SAs for us and listed all of the partnership income, by the book. In some instances, I guess they chose to ignore it and now think they can come back and un-ignore it

[TheGadgetMan]

This is what we did do. MontP filed our SAs for us and listed all of the partnership income, by the book. In some instances, I guess they chose to ignore it and now think they can come back and un-ignore it

Yes...and in some of our cases, they've decided they can re-open a SAR OVER 2 YEARS after the window closed...even though EVERYTHING was declared on the SAR...this is frankly scandalous....

[ASB]

Yes...and in some of our cases, they've decided they can re-open a SAR OVER 2 YEARS after the window closed...even though EVERYTHING was declared on the SAR...this is frankly scandalous....

From a personal point of view I would like to see that challenged.

Certainly some time ago when I was investigated they used discovery to go back 6 years and disallowed a few things (like rent a room relief). When all the dust had settled and I had changed accountants my new accountant was absolutely adamant that I could - and should - have refused to accept the assessments for earlier years. He was convinced that I would have won at commissioners, though I guess I'll never know.