BN66 - Time to fight back (Chapter 3)

[orientalist]

Yes and no. We know they have been after our homes for ages BUT the fact that none of the anti-avoidance clauses include any retrospective elements could mean that we are getting under their skin. After all, I'm sure that MPs and the Treasury wouldn't want to start receiving representations about BN whatever in FB09.

It also highlights the fact that they are going to have to work extremely hard to demonstrate that our case is "exceptional". It's simple. Its not exceptional and they won't be able to prove it.

The anti-avoidance elements are interesting for what they don't say.

Note BN60 is priceless,

DOUBLE TAXATION RELIEF AVOIDANCE: CREDIT ABUSE

Operative date
4. The measure will have effect on and after 22 April 2009.

but it also states:

8. The measure will put beyond doubt that the assumption should be that any
income received by a member of a banking group is trade income, unless
that assumption is not reasonable.
9. Although, in HM Revenue & Customs’ view, the 2005 legislation already
has this effect, some banks are self assessing their tax liabilities as if the
legislation did not apply to them. This measure will put it beyond doubt
that they may not self assess on this basis.

So no retrospection for them, why are we different?

[Toocan]

http://www.hm-treasury.gov.uk/d/Budg..._notes_900.pdf

Anybody spot anything in this to give us some hope.

I notice that NONE of the avoidance scheme's here have been closed retrospectivly. Which begs the question of WHY are WE the only ones being targeted.

Did you notice the language used in Budget Notice 60 (2009)? Very similar to BN66 (2008) except no retrospection.

It looks vendictive.

[DonkeyRhubarb]

Did you notice the language used in Budget Notice 60 (2009)? Very similar to BN66 (2008) except no retrospection.

It looks vendictive.

My guess is if the Treasury ever respond to the following FOI request there won't be anything in the past 20 years to compare with s58 FA2008.

http://www.whatdotheyknow.com/reques...trospective_ta

Hopefully, through FOI, when we get hold of some of the HMRC/Treasury documents leading up to BN66, we may finally discover why we were singled out.

One way or another, the truth will be prised out of them.

[BrilloPad]

My guess is if the Treasury ever respond to the following FOI request there won't be anything in the past 20 years to compare with s58 FA2008.

http://www.whatdotheyknow.com/reques...trospective_ta

Hopefully, through FOI, when we get hold of some of the HMRC/Treasury documents leading up to BN66, we may finally discover why we were singled out.

One way or another, the truth will be prised out of them.

Furthermore, after we win, we should persue the individuals responsible. They dont deserve to be in public service. I intend to see them sacked in disgrace.

[smalldog]

Note BN60 is priceless,

DOUBLE TAXATION RELIEF AVOIDANCE: CREDIT ABUSE

Operative date
4. The measure will have effect on and after 22 April 2009.

but it also states:

8. The measure will put beyond doubt that the assumption should be that any
income received by a member of a banking group is trade income, unless
that assumption is not reasonable.
9. Although, in HM Revenue & Customs’ view, the 2005 legislation already
has this effect, some banks are self assessing their tax liabilities as if the
legislation did not apply to them. This measure will put it beyond doubt
that they may not self assess on this basis.

So no retrospection for them, why are we different?

cos they see us as the little guys, they wouldnt dare take on the legal might of the banking system, they see us as an easy target...

[portseven]

So no retrospection for them, why are we different?

It is becoming more and more clear that this government simply does not like IT Contractors. First there was IR35 and then this, they clearly seem to have a particular dislike for us, and I would love to know why, or who.

Is it Timms with his history at Logica? And it's simply a matter of removing the competition for his old masters, or is it something else?

I would love to see this debated in the open, someone needs to be brought to account as why New Labour don't like the IT contracting community. If this was in the classroom or workplace I think we would have a good for bullying.

[bananarepublic]

It is becoming more and more clear that this government simply does not like IT Contractors. First there was IR35 and then this, they clearly seem to have a particular dislike for us, and I would love to know why, or who.

Is it Timms with his history at Logica? And it's simply a matter of removing the competition for his old masters, or is it something else?

I would love to see this debated in the open, someone needs to be brought to account as why New Labour don't like the IT contracting community. If this was in the classroom or workplace I think we would have a good for bullying.

They don't like us because they thought we would be pushovers and were proved wrong.

They don't like us because we tried to pull a trick only their rich donor pals are allowed to get away with.

Above all they don't like us because we stand for everything - individualism, self improvement, self determination and personal success that go against the collectivist grain of socialism.

BN66 was never to catch property developers. I bet they didn't give it a moments consideration. There is just something about IT contractors that gets under their thin skins.

[TykeMerc]

BN66 was never to catch property developers. I bet they didn't give it a moments consideration. There is just something about IT contractors that gets under their thin skins.

To be fair IT contractors did have a history of totally taking the Michael in respect of avoiding (it was borderline or clear evasion in many cases) NI and Income Tax prior to IR35. The number of one man Ltd companies
Plenty of people were barely disguised or even blatantly openly employees and claiming massive expenses against their tax and NI liabilities. Many contractors left a permie desk on Friday and sat down at the same desk on the next Monday, it used to be incredibly common. Plus for the more adventurous there were some rediculous offshore schemes with oddball loans repaid in comical freefall currencies.
Because there were so many IT contractors compared to other types of self employed professionals (building trades have had their own regulations for years) collectively we errected a colossal neon pink and green target for HMG and the then Inland Revenue to shoot at.

That's why they hate us!!!!!

[SantaClaus]

To be fair IT contractors did have a history of totally taking the Michael in respect of avoiding (it was borderline or clear evasion in many cases) NI and Income Tax prior to IR35. The number of one man Ltd companies
Plenty of people were barely disguised or even blatantly openly employees and claiming massive expenses against their tax and NI liabilities. Many contractors left a permie desk on Friday and sat down at the same desk on the next Monday, it used to be incredibly common. Plus for the more adventurous there were some rediculous offshore schemes with oddball loans repaid in comical freefall currencies.
Because there were so many IT contractors compared to other types of self employed professionals (building trades have had their own regulations for years) collectively we errected a colossal neon pink and green target for HMG and the then Inland Revenue to shoot at.

That's why they hate us!!!!!

Don't worry, they are going to hate us a lot more when we have finished with them

[TykeMerc]

Don't worry, they are going to hate us a lot more when we have finished with them

Quite right too!!!!

As you know I'm not affected by BN66, but I support your cause as retrospective tax legislation is downright immoral. The loophole was there, you exploited it quite legally even if the morality of that exploitation can be questioned, it was up to HMG to draft their legislation without loopholes in the first place.
Pursuing you guys with reprehensible and underhand terrorist tactics makes HMG and HMRC look even more despicable.