BN66 - Time to fight back (Chapter 3)

[BlasterBates]

Have you ever done a CUK post that is NOT total impending doom?

It doesn't look good though does it.

Having read about it "out of interest" I would say the whole Jersey thing was a tax dodge and the best you can hope for is not to pay penalities.

[helen7]

It doesn't look good though does it.

Having read about it "out of interest" I would say the whole Jersey thing was a tax dodge and the best you can hope for is not to pay penalities.

Actually, the best we can hope for is to be treated like everybody else that has used tax planning arrangements.

A lot of my collegues have been on Loan and EBT tax scheme's for years (many dating back to 1999). NONE of these have had their scheme's shut down with retrospective effect. The government closed the door on a given date and they moved on.

For whatever reason we are being made an example of. (an example that will bankrupt hundreds of working families and undermine future confidence of anyone planning their affairs in a legal efficient way).

Maybe in this years budget they will 'clarify' the IR35 rules with retrospective effect. After all, the majority of IT contractors not paying IR35 are 'dodging' tax with HMRC believe is due.

[poppy01]

It doesn't look good though does it.

Having read about it "out of interest" I would say the whole Jersey thing was a tax dodge and the best you can hope for is not to pay penalities.

we could go on about this all day but, so many things that are legal are just 'a tax dodge', you seem to be swallowing the government line that tax avoidance and evasion are the same thing coming under the banner non-compliance..

also we dont want them to repeal it, we just want it amending as per their tabled amendment, ie it should be enforced from April 2008. and I still dont see what the public finances have to do with state sponsored theft...

it was Isle of man by the way, and penalties dont come into it unless you include the interest

[ASB]

A lot of my collegues have been on Loan and EBT tax scheme's for years (many dating back to 1999). NONE of these have had their scheme's shut down with retrospective effect. The government closed the door on a given date and they moved on.

When the gov. started the scheme registration things they did say at that point (approx 2005?) that they would backdate legislation to that date.

However, an I have no idea what they have shut down once the registration regime started but an FOI request for which schemes have been shut down and whether or not they were actually backdated to this point might be interesting.

[DonkeyRhubarb]

For whatever reason we are being made an example of. (an example that will bankrupt hundreds of working families and undermine future confidence of anyone planning their affairs in a legal efficient way).

I suspect there are a whole host of reasons. I don't think HMRC liked being made fools of. They knew they would lose in the courts, so this was the only option they had to get their own back. They've also probably had it in for Montpelier for a long time.

Also, it was easy to get it through. Enacting brand new legislation retrospectively would sound a lot of alarm bells. But because this was just "clarifying" an existing piece of anti-avoidance legislation, it was easy to slip it through under the radars.

It is interesting how even talk of retrospective legislation over Fred's pension has got everyone jumping up and down, and yet legislation which will ruin several hundred families has hardly attracted any attention at all.

[Toocan]

When the gov. started the scheme registration things they did say at that point (approx 2005?) that they would backdate legislation to that date.

That only applied to PAYE avoidance scheme's - it does not apply to the scheme that is being discussed here. We know that because HMRC are not attempting to classify us as employee's of any kind.

If HMRC did try that, they would not be able to collect any tax.

[Tynos]

I have highlighted something we need to be aware of. This is the second time I have seen this said.

In other words, we shouldn't count on a Tory Government to undo this.

==============================
snip...
I should stress that the Conservative Party do not condone any form of tax avoidance.
...snip
Charles Hendry

My ISA is a Tax Avoidance scheme!
Are the Conservatives going to close this down, retrospectively to 2001?
Make me pay back all the Tax Savings, and charge interest!

I might have to vote LibDem next time.

Tynos/.

[Toocan]

Hello All

As a longtime lurker (partly because I couldn't recover my login password, take note Admins), I thought I should do the honourable thing.

A couple of things spurred me on recently. On Friday I was listening to Radio 5 Live, and the subject of tax avoidance came up with, of all people Bono, and he said a couple of interesting things. They've moved their business overseas to avoid heavier taxes in Ireland, and now they're having to deal with slings and arrows calling them non-patriots. But here's his view

• We are a business
• No point being great at music and rubbish at finance
• They have a right as a business to maximise their profits
• The Irish Government is happy to construct their tax regime to attract overseas money - i.e. it cuts both ways

So I started to think a bit more about that. I am a business. I work hard. I pay thousands for training and equipment. I have worked many nights to 3 or 4 in the morning while the Hectors of this world are tucked up ready to resume their 9 - 5s (or call in for a sickie). I stand on my own two feet, if I don't meet the standard, I'm on the street. I have nothing to hide and I hold my head high. I have paid a professional company to ensure that I can maximise my profits, legally and legitimately and openly. I AM NOT A TAX AVOIDER - THAT'S YOUR LABEL NOT MINE, I AM A LEGITIMATE BUSINESSMAN. Funny how all those billionaires in Belgravia who pay less tax than me are businessmen and I'm some kind of rodent. I have a right to maximise my profits. I think for too long I've kept my head down, a little ashamed of tax planning, but I'm not anymore.

The next thing is Sir Fred. I have to agree, failure should not be rewarded. The money I have, Ive earned, not given to me in the future. That said, where does this Government get off talking about 'the court of popular opinion'? What level of arrogance is that? Popular opinion is a plaything of the Government. It's swayed by spin and lies, it is whatever you want it to be. Its a way of covering up that you screwed up, and now you want to show us all how angry you are with this bad man for taking all that money (that your deregulation gave him, and you approved). He is in short, a mere distraction. You cleared the pension, now who's responsible? Stand up please. Unfortunately, the 'court of popular opinion' seems to have more influence these days than the court of law. And that really is the the road to tyranny. What next? Siezing the farmlands? Its for the very reason that people like the Government talk about the "court of popular opinion" that it is essential that we have a Court of Law.

The subject of taking the campaign to the media was discussed. I have to admit, it is a tricky one. But, I would love to force the Government down the road of trying to bring a retrospective law to claw back that pension and force the issue out into the public domain. There's plenty of big and badder enemies and for that matter, friends, of the state who would not want such a thing contemplated. They're sitting quietly on their hands at the moment, no-one has come for them yet. What about a well placed question on Question Time. "Retrospective tax legislation has been used to close down and bankrupt up to 4000 small businesses using a legal tax planning strategy, does the panel support applying the same strategy to Sir Fred and other businesses that the Government finds foul of popular opinion, but wants to avoid failure in the courts" (look at all those windfall tax calls for BP etc).

What about section 660? The language for that one was interesting. They're not going to pursue it at this stage, or words to that effect. Going to make that retrospective too? Get them later once things have picked up?

We have a list of MPs (well done DR, inspirational and superb) who say they will support us. We also have a list of weak-kneed MPs who don't want to get their hands dirty, and who by default support retrospective legislation. They should be held to account. I'd love to see this forced into the open, so everyone can see how they can be affected, and see how their MPs, their representatives, those holders of the vote begging bowl every three or four years, didnt have the guts to standup and even say a word of protest.

I've had enough. This is wrong. The Law is not your plaything. If it is wrong fix it, but what arrogance you have to reinterpret established law, when you don't have the guts to defend it in court. Court of popular opinion? Retrospective tax legislation? Is this what has happened to our country? It's not me that should feel ashamed Hector, its you, you and your political masters. And I hope that someday you will lie awake at night worrying about what's going to happen to your home, your family, your career as I have on many nights over the past four years. Of course, at least you can call in sick. After all, I'll still be working to four in the morning to pay your wages.

<admin note>Note taken, but if you had used the CONTACT FORM we would have looked into this for you...</admin note>

VERY well put - every MP should read this

[BrilloPad]

It doesn't look good though does it.

Having read about it "out of interest" I would say the whole Jersey thing was a tax dodge and the best you can hope for is not to pay penalities.

I think it looks very good!

And it is already agreed we will not pay penalties.

[bombaycat]

Shocking squared. I heard her yesterday on a repeat on the way to the airport. Really made me want to puke. She was effectively saying "what's right and enforceable is whatever we might want it to be at any given point".

George Orwell must be turning in his grave!! We are completely there now doublethink has become a daily reality.