BN66 - Time to fight back (Chapter 3)

[Ratican]

Writing to MPs - MEPs - MSPs - Ministers

Please PM me if you would be willing to write. I think it would be good to get some MPs to raise questions of the new Financial Secretary to the Treasury.

Unfortunately, I wrote to my MP quite recently so I don't want to write again for a while.

The points I think need to be made include:

• HMRC are using Section 58 to try and recover tax (+ interest) on income earned going back as far as 7 years
• There were over 200 people in the scheme in 2001/2, 350 in 2002/3 and 550 in 2003/4
• For whatever reason, large numbers of these people no longer have this money, and with recession looming, house prices, stock markets falling and credit in short supply there is little prospect of raising it
• If this measure is carried through then it will force hundreds of families into bankruptcy

Question: is this what the Government really wants?

I have sent emails to my MP - MSP (2 flats) and to all the members of the finance committee (as was) as well as the PM, Darling, Kennedy.

I got a lot of support from the non-labour members of the committee and also support from my MP. However the response from HMRC (on behalf of the Ministers) didn't really answer my questions and the PM won't respond unless you write to him at no. 10.

Today I have emailed:
darlinga@parliament.uk; stephen@stephentimms.org.uk
and cc'd:
jane.kennedy@parliament.uk;'info@susankramer.org.uk'
and sent printouts of these emails and a cover letter to:
Brown, Darling, Timms and Kennedy.

The email is long and well padded out with evidence and comments and has attachments from previos responses to my requests for information.
I am asking for answers to 4 questions and I don't plan on stopping the flow of emails/letters until I get proper, clear answers:

Question:
1. Can HMRC supply figures for the total number of scheme users (for all scheme providers) they had under enquiry on the following dates?
31st Dec 2003
31st Dec 2004
31st Dec 2005
31st Dec 2006
31st Dec 2007
31st Oct 2008 (i.e. to date)

2. Why did HMRC not use litigation to test the legislation that was in place before April 2008?

3. Please can you tell me if you are going reverse the retrospective aspect of Clause 55 in the 2009 budget?

4. To Summarise:
• HMRC are using Section 58 to try and recover tax (plus interest) on income earned going back as far as 7 years
• There were over 200 people in the Montpellier scheme in 2001/2, 350 in 2002/3 and 550 in 2003/4
• For whatever reason, large numbers of these people no longer have this money, and with recession looming, house prices, stock markets falling and credit in short supply there is little prospect of raising it
• If this measure is carried through then it will force hundreds of families into bankruptcy

Is this what the Government really wants?

I suggest that as well as sending emails you direct any specific questions about Clause 58 to Ministers by email and letter. More chance of getting a thought-through response.

There is a lot that doesn't add up and we should be entitled to answers.

[Ratican]

MPs - Phone them

Hi DR

I have written to my MP twice and had no response, once via writetothem, and once via their personal site. I sent these when this was first discussed on the thread, so some time ago.

Any thoughts on how I could escalate this?

Cheers
CI

I had a similar problem with my MP - I called their Parliamentary office and they apologised and arranged an appointment for me to meet. I also received a letter apologising shortly after.

So - Phone them - they are bound to represent you in any matter - to not respond to you is disorganised and shameful.

[DonkeyRhubarb]

Hi DR

I have written to my MP twice and had no response, once via writetothem, and once via their personal site. I sent these when this was first discussed on the thread, so some time ago.

Any thoughts on how I could escalate this?

Cheers
CI

Perhaps the MP's office are not very computer literate.

I would try sending a letter in the post.

[Hawkwind]

and have Stephen Timms as their local MP?

http://www.stephentimms.org.uk/biography

He recently replaced Jane Kennedy as Financial Secretary to the Treasury.

He is patron of the "Christian Socialist Movement", whatever that is.

If he is your MP, perhaps you would like to write and ask him if he thinks it is fair to use legislation (retrospective or otherwise) to potentially bankrupt hundreds of families, just as we are heading into a recession.

You may also want to ask him if he is aware that HMRC are using this legislation to try and collect tax (+ interest) on income earned 7 years ago, which many people simply no longer have.

Although HMRC may carry out the dirty deed, ultimately it is his department which is responsible for this legislation.

As I recall it was Stephen Timms who was largely responsible for IR35 in the first place. Whether he just has a rabid dislike of contractors or whether it had anything to do with him being a director of OVUM I wouldn't like to say, but I can imagine what his response to any letters might be.

[DonkeyRhubarb]

I have sent emails to my MP - MSP (2 flats) and to all the members of the finance committee (as was) as well as the PM, Darling, Kennedy.

I got a lot of support from the non-labour members of the committee and also support from my MP. However the response from HMRC (on behalf of the Ministers) didn't really answer my questions and the PM won't respond unless you write to him at no. 10.

Today I have emailed:
darlinga@parliament.uk; stephen@stephentimms.org.uk
and cc'd:
jane.kennedy@parliament.uk;'info@susankramer.org.uk'
and sent printouts of these emails and a cover letter to:
Brown, Darling, Timms and Kennedy.

The email is long and well padded out with evidence and comments and has attachments from previos responses to my requests for information.
I am asking for answers to 4 questions and I don't plan on stopping the flow of emails/letters until I get proper, clear answers:

Question:
1. Can HMRC supply figures for the total number of scheme users (for all scheme providers) they had under enquiry on the following dates?
31st Dec 2003
31st Dec 2004
31st Dec 2005
31st Dec 2006
31st Dec 2007
31st Oct 2008 (i.e. to date)

2. Why did HMRC not use litigation to test the legislation that was in place before April 2008?

3. Please can you tell me if you are going reverse the retrospective aspect of Clause 55 in the 2009 budget?

4. To Summarise:
• HMRC are using Section 58 to try and recover tax (plus interest) on income earned going back as far as 7 years
• There were over 200 people in the Montpellier scheme in 2001/2, 350 in 2002/3 and 550 in 2003/4
• For whatever reason, large numbers of these people no longer have this money, and with recession looming, house prices, stock markets falling and credit in short supply there is little prospect of raising it
• If this measure is carried through then it will force hundreds of families into bankruptcy

Is this what the Government really wants?

I suggest that as well as sending emails you direct any specific questions about Clause 58 to Ministers by email and letter. More chance of getting a thought-through response.

There is a lot that doesn't add up and we should be entitled to answers.

Great stuff. IMO, it is definitely worth keeping this up. They probably won't answer the questions, as politicians rarely do, but I think we need to keep banging home the message THIS IS GOING TO BANKRUPT A LOT OF PEOPLE.

In the Poll we carried out on the old thread, 23% said they had no savings. If this was representative of 2000 contractors, then we could be looking at around 500 people financially ruined by this.

If I was one of these 500, I would definitely get off my a*se to write to my elected representative and tell them what misery this legislation is going to inflict on my family!!!

[DonkeyRhubarb]

As I recall it was Stephen Timms who was largely responsible for IR35 in the first place. Whether he just has a rabid dislike of contractors or whether it had anything to do with him being a director of OVUM I wouldn't like to say, but I can imagine what his response to any letters might be.

IR35 was one thing. This just made people less well off going forward.

Section 58 will actually bankrupt people.

In a country like the UK where there is hardly any "savings culture", it is hardly suprising that if you try and collect tax (never mind interest) from 7 years ago, you are going ruin a lot of people.

Maybe they don't give a toss but we have the right to know this.

[Hawkwind]

IR35 was one thing. This just made people less well off going forward.

Section 58 will actually bankrupt people.

In a country like the UK where there is hardly any "savings culture", it is hardly suprising that if you try and collect tax (never mind interest) from 7 years ago, you are going ruin a lot of people.

Maybe they don't give a toss but we have the right to know this.

The point I was trying to make was that as most if not all of the people using the MP scheme did it because of IR35, so I expect writing to the originator of IR35 will just get short shrift.

As far as this government goes I'm sure their attitude will be somewhere between "Couldn't care less" or "Serves them right" towards those of us facing bankruptcy and given the current economic situation I think a lot of people will probably think the same. I certainly think that any attempt to publicise our cause is likely to do more harm than good and now that the Finance Bill has been passed don't really see what good writing to various MP's will do.

I'm just going to sit tight and let MP do their stuff with the JR which will hopefully go our way, although even then I'm concerned that the government will find some obscure "extraordinary times" type measure to allow them to ignore the ruling.

[smalldog]

Indeed.

I would like to know WHY HMRC and government hates small IT businesses so much?

Ive heard a few powerful people are in bed with the consultancy heads who obvioulsy cant stand freelancers as we get in the way of their lucrative graduate placements charging £800 per day and paying perm salaries of £30k...IR35 was apparently encouraged by some top knob consultants in discussions with the government

[Ratican]

Gordon Brown's inbox is full

Just sent that email... few errors:
Jane Kennedy's new email address is: Jane.Kennedy@defra.gsi.gov.uk

Gordon Brown's inbox is full!:
Your message did not reach some or all of the intended recipients.

Subject: Clause 55 / Budget Note 66
Sent: 24/11/2008 13:18

The following recipient(s) cannot be reached:

BROWNG@parliament.uk on 24/11/2008 13:18
The message could not be delivered because the recipient's mailbox is full.
<HP3K13M.parliament.uk #5.2.2>

[BrilloPad]

Just sent that email... few errors:
Jane Kennedy's new email address is: Jane.Kennedy@defra.gsi.gov.uk

Gordon Brown's inbox is full!:
Your message did not reach some or all of the intended recipients.

Subject: Clause 55 / Budget Note 66
Sent: 24/11/2008 13:18

The following recipient(s) cannot be reached:

BROWNG@parliament.uk on 24/11/2008 13:18
The message could not be delivered because the recipient's mailbox is full.
<HP3K13M.parliament.uk #5.2.2>

DEmocracy in action. Its only fair.