P35 Question 6

[ruth11]

either

If you don't have the right of substitution, then you are providing a personal service

or

If you have the right of substitution, then you are not providing a personal service

surely?

Yes sorry, just reread my post before I saw your reply (I was on the phone!) and amended accordingly!

[moorfield]

I must say I'm surprised that the accountants have not been more forthcoming on this. Had I not noticed this P35 debate on here I (like many others I suspect) probably would have blindly left them to file it for me. Now I've queried it with mine and asked them not to file it until I've confirmed back to them.

[Qdos Contractor]

Just to clarify Qdos' views on the matter; as mentioned previously we are advising 'yes' and then 'no'.

Whilst ticking 'no' for the first question will not have an immediate impact, our concern is with the 2008 self assessment tax return. This includes a section that requires details of income received from the provision of your services through a service company. If you have ticked 'no' to the first question on the P35, how will you approach the section on the return? By remaining consistent and ignoring this section there is the potential that this could be classed as an incorrectly completed return. On the other hand, if you did complete the section HMRC may pick up on the discrepancy and this could possibly increase the likelihood of an Employer Compliance Review.

The definition of 'Service Company' should not be an issue - as Malvolio says, the paper version of the definition should take precedence.

[Bumfluff]

Just to clarify Qdos' views on the matter; as mentioned previously we are advising 'yes' and then 'no'.

Whilst ticking 'no' for the first question will not have an immediate impact, our concern is with the 2008 self assessment tax return. This includes a section that requires details of income received from the provision of your services through a service company. If you have ticked 'no' to the first question on the P35, how will you approach the section on the return? By remaining consistent and ignoring this section there is the potential that this could be classed as an incorrectly completed return. On the other hand, if you did complete the section HMRC may pick up on the discrepancy and this could possibly increase the likelihood of an Employer Compliance Review.

The definition of 'Service Company' should not be an issue - as Malvolio says, the paper version of the definition should take precedence.

Hello Qdos, in my case my P35 for the previous years have been answered NO/NO to these questions, though as other posters have pointed out the direction of these questions over the years has changed. What is you view in my case to changing to a Yes / No or would you suggest I stay consistent with the previous years. Also as a holder of the Qdos freelancers insurance could we end up invalidating it by are response to these questions ?

[Qdos Contractor]

Hello Qdos, in my case my P35 for the previous years have been answered NO/NO to these questions, though as other posters have pointed out the direction of these questions over the years has changed. What is you view in my case to changing to a Yes / No or would you suggest I stay consistent with the previous years. Also as a holder of the Qdos freelancers insurance could we end up invalidating it by are response to these questions ?

The two questions on previous P35s were along the lines of 'does IR35 apply to any work you have carried out' and 'if so have you included a deemed payment'. The questions on the new form are therefore totally different and no comparison should be made to its previous incarnation. Ticking 'yes, no' this time is absolutely fine and will not invalidate our insurance.

[Ruprect]

The two questions on previous P35s were along the lines of 'does IR35 apply to any work you have carried out' and 'if so have you included a deemed payment'. The questions on the new form are therefore totally different and no comparison should be made to its previous incarnation. Ticking 'yes, no' this time is absolutely fine and will not invalidate our insurance.

Call me an old cynic, but the previous questions you quote seem to me exactly what HMRC are getting you to imply by clicking "yes"... so are likely to be a flag for investigations when the second answer is "no".

[malvolio]

Call me an old cynic, but the previous questions you quote seem to me exactly what HMRC are getting you to imply by clicking "yes"... so are likely to be a flag for investigations when the second answer is "no".

Fine - so answer yes to the question as stated. You will, of course, have applied the rules and determined that there is no tax to pay since you are not in their scope...

Of course, Hector is more likely to think that if you said Yes, you should have paid some tax as a result, so let's have an aspect enquiry...

[babason]

My accountant did it for me. He answered No/No and it never occured to me that it was worth worrying about. Whatever the 'right' answer is I daresay thousands have answered it 'wrong'...

[xoggoth]

Maybe that's the solution. If EVERYBODY answers entirely randomly they won't be able to pick anyone out and the questions will be meaningless. Start a campaign of misinformation, I suggest no/yes.

[ctdctd]

OK - Enough already

I've just submitted mine as Yes/No - and the men in smart black suits have not arrived to take me away yet!