P35 Question 6

[Chugnut]

Eh, surely the answer is no/no. I dont personally provide anything, my ltd company does.

But in the section you've quoted it explains that the contract involves a company supplying said services. Whether you, or a substitute provides those services, they are still be provided by an individual via the company, surely?

[dude69]

Yesterday (22nd) - http://www.hmrc.gov.uk/news/index.htm

ah well my P35 went off on the 21st with No/No, so I don't have to worry.

[malvolio]

But in the section you've quoted it explains that the contract involves a company supplying said services. Whether you, or a substitute provides those services, they are still be provided by an individual via the company, surely?

The distinction is between "Providing personal service" where you alone are there to do the job and "Providing Services personally" where anyone can provide the service but it happens to be be you at the moment as YourCo's currently available worker.

That's why RoS is so important: if you have an RoS the first one, which is almost certainly IR35 caught, cannot apply.

[Chugnut]

The distinction is between "Providing personal service" where you alone are there to do the job and "Providing Services personally" where anyone can provide the service but it happens to be be you at the moment as YourCo's currently available worker.

That's why RoS is so important: if you have an RoS the first one, which is almost certainly IR35 caught, cannot apply.

I understand the distinction but wonder if Hector analyses it to quite the same degree.

I just can't see how the service company definition can be argued away with any conviction if investigated. I'm sure they mean all limited company contractors tick yes to the service company question, and no to the second if outside, yes if inside. I guess I can just imagine them getting the right @rse on a no/no response.

They still haven't addressed the mixed contracts scenario either.

[Lewis]

So just to be clear. In light of new HMRC information, am I right in saying if I am NOT caught by IR35 and NOT a managed service company I should answer No/No?

[Pickle2]

So just to be clear. In light of new HMRC information, am I right in saying if I am NOT caught by IR35 and NOT a managed service company I should answer No/No?

Thats how I read it.

[moorfield]

So just to be clear. In light of new HMRC information, am I right in saying if I am NOT caught by IR35 and NOT a managed service company I should answer No/No?

Lewis - my view also - check with your accountants on this (same as mine)because they seem to be assuming everyone is Yes/No and not telling their clients about it.

[RockyBalboa]

I'm confused..

If you answer No/No, where does that leave you in terms of the Self assessment?

Thanks.

[THEPUMA]

I'm confused..

If you answer No/No, where does that leave you in terms of the Self assessment?

Thanks.

I will be advising my clients not to put any figures in the box in question on the self-assessment form.

I am advised by someone who has taken counsel's opinion that the question is at worst illegal (the question is purely for their risk analysis purposes rather than enabling them to quantify the tax due, and that is not the purpose of a tax return). If not illegal, it is ambiguous, and if you don't have sufficient information to enable you to answer a question, you don't have to.

You could be aggressive and put something in the additional information box saying either "I haven't put any entry in the box requesting income derived from the provision of my services through a service company as I consider the question to be illegal." or "I haven't put an entry in the box requesting income derived from the provision of my services through a service company as I consider the question to be ambiguous" but I think both of those are likely to invite a challenge so my advice will be to leave box blank and not put any disclosure in the additional information box.

[EvilWeevil]

I'm confused..

If you answer No/No, where does that leave you in terms of the Self assessment?

Thanks.

My logic is that, given I answered "No, this company is not a service company", then on my self assessment, I shall be answering "0 - no income from service companies". And if that's wrong, so be it. The self assessment is designed to be completed by idiots like me, not to be the exclusive preseve of accountants and lawyers with an intimate knowledge of each and every nuance of the HMRC rules and regulations