Anti-Bribery+ compulsory end-client trainings when working outside IR35

[jamesbrown]

But if you get to the end of your 6 month contract and they offer you an extension, if you ask for an increase in rate and they ask you why they should give it to you, what's the difference between that and an employee performance review?

Performance reviews are necessary, inevitable. There is no ongoing business relationship that does not involve periodic reviews on both sides, it would be insane not to review/reflect on whether deliverables have been met and prices continue to be acceptable. However, they (should) proceed in a completely different way for contractors than employees and should be communicated through different channels (procurement vs. client managers). As a supplier, negotiations about pricing (should) happen through procurement, not with client managers, so the conversation you mention should never happen transparently. Rather, that is an internal conversation for the client (e.g., between procurement and project managers), after which they've formulated their opinion and whether they want to renew and what costing they could accept.

[jamesbrown]

Of course, it may be different at small clients/start-ups where procurement and client managers can be the same people, but there are more general risks with that type of work, especially without a clear statement of work and clear acceptance criteria against which performance can be judged.

[WTFH]

Of course, it may be different at small clients/start-ups where procurement and client managers can be the same people, but there are more general risks with that type of work, especially without a clear statement of work and clear acceptance criteria against which performance can be judged.

I'm not disagreeing with you, it's more a comment about how some on here will say that they could never take a permanent job because of annual performance reviews, and at the same time will go to their manager at the client and ask for a rate increase (or go through their agency to ask the manager) every 6 months.
In reality there are some "contractors" who claim they are different to permies, but their working practices are close to identical.

[jamesbrown]

I'm not disagreeing with you, it's more a comment about how some on here will say that they could never take a permanent job because of annual performance reviews, and at the same time will go to their manager at the client and ask for a rate increase (or go through their agency to ask the manager) every 6 months.
In reality there are some "contractors" who claim they are different to permies, but their working practices are close to identical.

Absolutely, agree. Perhaps even the majority. I don't think CUK is very reflective of the wider contracting community in that regard (it is generally better here) and there are certainly quite a few here with that permie mindset. Indeed, it's hard to argue with the motivations of successive gov'ts w/r to targeting contractors, even if their methods and the resulting legislation has been quite poor.

[meanttobeworking]

Thanks everyone for the replies

[PerfectStorm]

Once you've done a few of these you'll be able to answer them very quickly indeed.

[Guy Incognito]

You don't go to the employees xmas parties even if you think you are one of the crowd and all matey with the perms.

I mean I've been to loads of parties of places I don't even work - I don't think we need to worry about this!

[northernladuk]

I mean I've been to loads of parties of places I don't even work - I don't think we need to worry about this!

Maybe but if you go knowing what you are doing then fair enough. Going and not realising why you shouldn't is a problem. It's probably the tip of the iceberg.