is MSC the endgame for LTD contractors ?

[goldengoose]

Considering the latest response from BOOX https://www.contractoruk.com/news/00...ris_clark.html
And also the responses from CK.

It appears that HMRC can decide when they like without due research that all accounting firms are MSCP's and in turn the ltd companies are by default and with no questions asked , an MSC. There appears to be no fairness , no regard for life or wellbeing of the nearly 1m ltd one man band companies.

It appears HMRC are trying to really blur the lines between a legitimate relationship between company and accountant. They failed IR35 and now will come attack at this angle . It really feels like there's no end in sight for their demonisation and pursuit of a very productive and mostly skilled workforce. Considering what HMRC are going for in BOOX and CK , you would almost have to not use and accountant and do all the accounting yourself to not be caught by this legislation.

My thoughts are that HMRC are desperate , the conservative government have been stealing taxpayers money and loading themselves up and dried up the coffers. In a desperate bid to claw back money they are exploring such a ludicrous and dangerous avenue in going after multi million £ well established businesses . There really is no regard for business owners either.

My thoughts are that HMRC will stop at nothing to stop one man band companies no longer operating and being forced inside IR35 so they can collect tax at source .

in short , i think we are all f***ed , the LOAN CHARGE was their first trial run. There appears to be no more certainty, fairness or protection for taxpayers , there is nothing stopping HMRC from going back 6 years and then pushing a case to go back 15-20 years.

I hope i'm wrong , but we are crop for harvest to them. They've known they would investigate x companies for years.

[cojak]

Not really.

Use a local accountant or FreeAgent with an end-of-year tally up with a larger accountant.

[Lance]

No.

[ladymuck]

It's really not difficult to do the basic book keeping side yourself, especially with the online tools (FreeAgent, Xero, Sage, etc etc) now available. Why are you complaining about being fully aware of your company's financial state? It's literally your legal responsibility as a director.

If you think it's unreasonable to be caught under MSC legislation because you chose to be totally hands off in the running of your company and blindly accepting everything your accountant told you to do then you've only got yourself to blame.

There's nothing wrong with having an accountant. What's wrong is allowing your accountant to make financial decisions that you, as director, should be making.

[sadkingbilly]

It appears that ...................
It appears HMRC ...................
it really feels like ............................

My thoughts are ...............................
My thoughts are .....................................

in short , i think ..................................

I hope i'm wrong ,

yep, you are

[Fred Bloggs]

What they said. It's never been easier to DIY. An experienced contractor should have little if any problems. I have done the full business cycle from registration to strike off myself. As long as you're fully prepared and serious about it there's no better time. And there's always a high street accountant for one of tasks if required. Ofcourse, permitractors will be put off and that's a good thing.

[BlueSharp]

If your accountant looks like it's providing an MSC service then it probably is, especially if they offer umbrella services outside of the LTD. There are plenty of other accountants out there that don't look like an MSC service.

[goldengoose]

It's really not difficult to do the basic book keeping side yourself, especially with the online tools (FreeAgent, Xero, Sage, etc etc) now available. Why are you complaining about being fully aware of your company's financial state? It's literally your legal responsibility as a director.

If you think it's unreasonable to be caught under MSC legislation because you chose to be totally hands off in the running of your company and blindly accepting everything your accountant told you to do then you've only got yourself to blame.

There's nothing wrong with having an accountant. What's wrong is allowing your accountant to make financial decisions that you, as director, should be making.

I am well aware of the legislation. I have an accountant I pay monthly , a flat fee , no special premiums or tiers. I set up my company elsewhere before joining this accountancy firm.

- I use FreeAgent , this is provided by the accountancy and should I leave or go on my own then I pay the the fee for freeagent. The accountancy does not have a custom portal
- I have full control over my bank accounts , I make all payments for expenses , payroll , TAX etc .. the accountant does not and never has had this access. My accountant has never had any say in the finances of my business , how i run it , how i pay and what i pay etc .. I am also responsible for reconciliation , raising invoices , chasing invoices , finding work , reviewing contracts
- A tax efficient salary is recommended but It is just a recommendation and I have taken out different salary / dividend combination. In some cases maybe not the most tax efficient
- The account prepares my Quarterly VAT and Corporation Tax. But they cannot submit prior to my approval and I make good the payments

That is as much involvement as the accountant. I record expenses , keep records of mileage/receipts. I have my own company branding , website , methodologies . i have had 11 clients in the last 4.5 years . The accountant never makes the final decision , in fact there is not much communication between myself and them other than when there is a VAT or Corp tax filing or if I need general accounting advice i.e Is Company car Benefit In Kind if i use it partially for business , what is the correct expense type for a lunch with a client ..
There are many things that I know , but i'm no accountant and in the last 2-3 years i have turned over on average 200-250k a year.Thats alot of revenue to do it solo , especially considering I have average accounting skills at best.


The costelloe case highlighted some familiar workings of most contractors, except for the part where the 'accountants' had access to bank accounts and were doing everything financial and passing on the wages after all deductions.

HMRC have blurred the lines and with their recent cases againt boox and ck they are trying to create a situation whereby majority of contractors will be caught . A situation where you are probably only not caught if you do your own accounts

[eek]

HMRC have blurred the lines and with their recent cases againt boox and ck they are trying to create a situation whereby majority of contractors will be caught . A situation where you are probably only not caught if you do your own accounts

And? You aren't telling anyone here anything new.

You would note that the posters on here are all saying use a local accountant or even do it yourself - because HMRC definitely have a plan and do seem to have particular targets in mind.

To some extent I think the opposite of what the owner of Boox said is quite possibly accurate - FCSA isn't so much a tool for showing compliance to HMRC it could equally be (and in my mind probably is) a red flag to them based on the market the accountancy firm is targetting.

[Guy Incognito]

because you chose to be totally hands off in the running of your company and blindly accepting everything your accountant told you to do then you've only got yourself to blame.

You are missing the point. Their is no way to defend yourself except go to FTT. They stand your case over and you wait x years.