• Visitors can check out the Forum FAQ by clicking this link. You have to register before you can post: click the REGISTER link above to proceed. To start viewing messages, select the forum that you want to visit from the selection below. View our Forum Privacy Policy.

Leeway with 'wholly and exclusively for business use' regarding furniture?

Collapse
X
  •  
  • Filter
  • Time
  • Show
Clear All
new posts

    Leeway with 'wholly and exclusively for business use' regarding furniture?

    A while back I expensed an office chair to my company. I work from home and sit on it while I do my 5 days a week job. I spent some time browsing the forums and it seemed to be OK.

    I now want to buy a new desk, and possibly get another monitor. My PC was bought through my company too.

    There's an article on the site What home office expenses can I claim as a limited company contractor? (contractoruk.com) that says "If you are using part of your home as office space for business purposes, you’re entitled to claim expenses through your limited company in the form of office equipment and fixtures and fittings." and the conclusion on the forums of past threads was that an office chair was acceptable.

    But I am wondering what leeway there is, because what if I want to use my chair/desk to sit and do some personal work?

    This would pale in comparison to 40+ hours a week of business use. What's the official ruling?

    #2
    Purchasing an office desk and claiming as a business expense is fine. Wholly and exclusively in case law emphasises the motive more than the outcome and incidental personal use is fine in that context. By way of contrast, purchasing a kitchen table at which you do some office work would clearly not be fine because there would be a dual motive. There’s a lot of common sense in these rules. If your intention is to circumvent them, it’s almost certainly disallowable, but incidental personal use is generally fine.

    Comment


      #3
      My entirely personal and non-legal test for this kind of officey stuff is "Would I buy it if I rented an office". Of course there's going to be an element of dual use - every time you turn around chat to a colleague in an office you're using the equipment for personal use! But, ultimately, the question is what the item fundamentally required for the purposes of business.

      So, in case you haven't guessed - pretty much all my kit in my home office is via the Ltd Co. Monitors, monitor stands, desk, laptop, dock, printer, paper, chair etc.

      Comment


        #4
        If primary purpose, intent and majority usage is business related then it's fine. It's inevitable there will be some personal use, much as a company may provide a user with a laptop but they access their personal webmail on it or browse for holidays using it.

        I did a stroll around Windsor on 2 Oct for Alzheimer's Society. You can chuck me a few quid here if you like: https://www.justgiving.com/fundraising/lmallen-1

        Comment


          #5
          Thanks, that seems very sensible and will save me literally tens of pounds.

          Comment


            #6
            Originally posted by FIERCE TANK BATTLE View Post
            Thanks, that seems very sensible and will save me literally tens of pounds.
            Do you need a desk to carry out your work? If yes then it can be expensed.

            Comment


              #7
              Originally posted by cannon999 View Post

              Do you need a desk to carry out your work? If yes then it can be expensed.
              Yep. The rule of thumb is generally wholly and exclusively but with desks, PC, phones there are exceptions in place for some personal use. As long as it's mainly business. Broadband often falls out of the rule though as every household has it now and with streaming and you being connected to it for 24 hours personally and only 8 for work it tips towards more personal use.

              If you really want to go to town then anything you have to buy for your business you've never had to use personally will do. Stationary, extra stuff for keeping paperwork etc can all go on there with the desk. Remember to get yourself the ergonomic stuff like wrist rests for long sessions if you are getting on a bit as well. Anything a real office would have.

              No vacuum cleaners for keeping the office clean though as has been asked before.
              'CUK forum personality of 2011 - Winner - Yes really!!!!

              Comment


                #8
                Originally posted by jamesbrown View Post
                Purchasing an office desk and claiming as a business expense is fine. Wholly and exclusively in case law emphasises the motive more than the outcome and incidental personal use is fine in that context. By way of contrast, purchasing a kitchen table at which you do some office work would clearly not be fine because there would be a dual motive. There’s a lot of common sense in these rules. If your intention is to circumvent them, it’s almost certainly disallowable, but incidental personal use is generally fine.
                That's an interesting distinction. Essentially there's a difference between the motivation to buy W&E, versus what you do once you have it? You cannot do your work without X so the company buys it, but you can then use X for non-work purposes? Or is that an oversimplification?
                Last edited by d000hg; 5 October 2021, 16:25.
                Originally posted by MaryPoppins
                I'd still not breastfeed a nazi
                Originally posted by vetran
                Urine is quite nourishing

                Comment


                  #9
                  Originally posted by d000hg View Post

                  That's an interesting distinction. Essentially there's a difference between the motivation to buy W&E, versus what you do once you have it? You cannot do your work without X so the company buys it, but you can then use X for non-work purposes? Or is that an oversimplification?
                  I'd say you've over complicated it not simplified it. Saying the difference between motivation to buy vs what you do with it brings in a ton of abiguity. You could buy a vacuum cleaner with the motivation to keep the office area clean... but then use it on the rest of the house. I pick that one because we've had someone genuinely think that is allowable. The motivation to buy it should be for business and it should be used for business. If there is some personal use then there is a common sense decision to be made.

                  I think you are making it more complicated by focussing on the non work purpose. For business use with occassional personal use and you might have a case. Focussing so much on the personal use looks like you are trying to manipulate the rules.
                  'CUK forum personality of 2011 - Winner - Yes really!!!!

                  Comment


                    #10
                    Originally posted by d000hg View Post

                    That's an interesting distinction. Essentially there's a difference between the motivation to buy W&E, versus what you do once you have it? You cannot do your work without X so the company buys it, but you can then use X for non-work purposes? Or is that an oversimplification?
                    It's more like motivation is emphasized in case law when attempting to interpret the facts of what actually happened, in practice. The first thing is that it must be capable of being wholly and exclusively for business use. A kitchen table isn't going to pass that test because it has an intrinsic non-trade purpose. The second thing is that it must also be supported by the facts, which is where the interpretation and case law arises.

                    The main problem areas involve food and drink, entertainment and travel for conferences combined with a holiday, things like that where a dual purpose is possible, even likely. There are some case law precedents that are quite surprising, though, like a barrister (or some such, I forget) purchasing black robes that were necessary for their work, but it subsequently being established that there was a dual purpose of preserving "comfort and decency". However, in most cases, when the motivation was wholly and exclusively for the trade, then some incidental personal use will not undermine that. If motivation were not emphasized, then incidental personal use would fail the strict interpretation of ITTOIA. It would also be hard to distinguish between an incidental benefit that was not sought (allowable) and a secondary non-trade motive. The BIM is pretty decent on this stuff:

                    https://www.gov.uk/hmrc-internal-man...anual/bim37400

                    Comment

                    Working...
                    X