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IR35 sanity check....

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    #11
    Originally posted by eek View Post
    I suspect next christmas a lot of banks will be "furloughing" their now inside IR35 workers.

    I wouldn't hold it out as the great escape plan you think it is.
    I'm not holding out any hope tbh. I originally thought that the client I'm with was just blanket banning PSCs like the banks are. Out of the blue I get an IR35 determination (more than 6 months into the role), so thought I'd get an opinion.

    TBH it'd have to have been a fairly solid 'yes this is a strong pointer' as this is the first inside gig I've done in 15 years of contracting, so I don't want to rock the boat unnecessarily.
    And the lord said unto John; "come forth and receive eternal life." But John came fifth and won a toaster.

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      #12
      Originally posted by eek View Post
      I suspect next christmas a lot of banks will be "furloughing" their now inside IR35 workers.

      I wouldn't hold it out as the great escape plan you think it is.
      While I wouldn't hold out much hope, it does in part show the ridiculousness of the legislation. If the majority of permies were told they're going to be obliged to take x weeks (typically at least 2) out of the y weeks holiday every year, thus effectively not allowing them the flexibility of planning for themselves, all hell really would break loose. Saying that though, none of these arguments matter a damn, because the way this government is going, with covid they've now got the perfect excuse to effectively turn everyone into a contractor anyway, all in the interests of creating jobs.

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        #13
        Originally posted by ShandyDrinker View Post
        While I wouldn't hold out much hope, it does in part show the ridiculousness of the legislation. If the majority of permies were told they're going to be obliged to take x weeks (typically at least 2) out of the y weeks holiday every year, thus effectively not allowing them the flexibility of planning for themselves, all hell really would break loose. Saying that though, none of these arguments matter a damn, because the way this government is going, with covid they've now got the perfect excuse to effectively turn everyone into a contractor anyway, all in the interests of creating jobs.
        IR35 introduces the concept of the zero hour contract to a whole new world of people who thought it would never happen to them.

        And yes the end result will (over time) be a lot more people on those sort of contracts - but hey I pointed this out years ago and no one beyond a couple of unions picked up the issue.
        merely at clientco for the entertainment

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          #14
          Originally posted by eek View Post
          I suspect next christmas a lot of banks will be "furloughing" their now inside IR35 workers.

          I wouldn't hold it out as the great escape plan you think it is.
          And I'm not sure you'll actually get many Inside IR35 workers at banks.

          Many banks (and other clients) already (pre-pandemic) furloughed contractors over the festive period and those I know that moved to Umbrella or PAYE last April were furloughed in December 2020 (at least 2, but often 3 weeks).

          I don't know anyone at any bank who officially moved Inside IR35 (ie. a determination was made) but if the do exist, i suspect they'd have been furloughed too.

          GoT may know as he's got loads of friends at loads of banks.
          Last edited by Paralytic; 18 February 2021, 14:39.

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            #15
            Originally posted by b0redom View Post
            I appreciate all that, but that's a hard fight to win. Furloughing staff over Xmas seemed to be to a bit more straight forward. Or at least it did. I mean you wouldn't tell your permies (and in fact they didn't) 'you are not allowed to work for the next 2-3 weeks'.
            Yes they do. Furlough comes from permanent world and is when they don't want perms to work but pay them. I mean, look where we are now, the whole covid furlough thing is exactly what you are saying they wouldn't do. It's happening en masse right now.

            The definition is : to put (a worker) on furlough : to lay off (a worker) for usually a brief or temporary period.. You aren't a worker you are a supplier.

            We aren't furloughed, we just aren't offered work. A good example where the wrong word makes the situation more complex than it is.
            'CUK forum personality of 2011 - Winner - Yes really!!!!

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              #16
              Originally posted by northernladuk View Post
              We aren't furloughed, we just aren't offered work. A good example where the wrong word makes the situation more complex than it is.
              Clients have been "furloughing" contractors for years. It might be considered a mis-use of the word (as per the definition you posted above) but it's the word they use. This is across multiple industries.

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                #17
                Originally posted by Paralytic View Post
                Clients have been "furloughing" contractors for years. It might be considered a mis-use of the word (as per the definition you posted above) but it's the word they use. This is across multiple industries.
                Correct but worth educating contractors on exactly what is happening and what it isn't so people like the OP make incorrect assumptions they wouldn't make if they could see what it actually happening.

                Ok going a long with the terms but not ok to not fully understand the situation.
                'CUK forum personality of 2011 - Winner - Yes really!!!!

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                  #18
                  Originally posted by Paralytic View Post
                  And I'm not sure you'll actually get many Inside IR35 workers at banks.

                  Many banks (and other clients) already (pre-pandemic) furloughed contractors over the festive period and those I know that moved to Umbrella or PAYE last April were furloughed in December 2020 (at least 2, but often 3 weeks).

                  I don't know anyone at any bank who officially moved Inside IR35 (ie. a determination was made) but if the do exist, i suspect they'd have been furloughed too.

                  GoT may know as he's got loads of friends at loads of banks.
                  Indeed, nobody I know in banking has had an inside IR35 assessment just blanket bans all round

                  From a few friends


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