A Sad “IR35” Day

[BoredBloke]

So when do you get the official determination you are inside because whatever you are going to do should be before that.

If he is offered the extension to feb, then surely he can pay for a contract review. If the review shows the role as being outside, then he could argue that his review better reflects the role because a review has actually taken place rather than the clients view that the role is inside, based on the fact that they couldn't be bothered reviewing it.

[PCTNN]

I would take it as an opportunity.
Pitch for a new contract to train the permies at a premium rate.
Client gets what he wants, you get an increased rate and relative certainty on the existing contract because it will have ended.

This one sounds like the most sensible option.

Different deliverables call for a different contract.

[NotAllThere]

Client: Well, if the Programme Manager hears that, he will escort you off site
Me: and......

Also, what Fidot said. New contract to do the training.

[SimonMac]

If he is offered the extension to feb, then surely he can pay for a contract review. If the review shows the role as being outside, then he could argue that his review better reflects the role because a review has actually taken place rather than the clients view that the role is inside, based on the fact that they couldn't be bothered reviewing it.

Doesn't matter, post April 2020 the determination lies with the client and the client only. Doesn't matter if you have the contract reviewed by HMRC themselves that states otherwise

[sal]

I would take it as an opportunity.
Pitch for a new contract to train the permies at a premium rate.
Client gets what he wants, you get an increased rate and relative certainty on the existing contract because it will have ended.

Given the attitude of the client, I somewhat doubt this is going to fly. It's more likely to inflame the situation.

If the contract has passed a review and you have IR35 insurance, I would tell them that I will likely take the extension to Feb, meanwhile try how the market is and if it's bad - accept the extension, otherwise just jump ship.

[Old Greg]

Also, what Fidot said. New contract to do the training.

On a fixed price basis.

[Hobosapien]

I would take it as an opportunity.
Pitch for a new contract to train the permies at a premium rate.
Client gets what he wants, you get an increased rate and relative certainty on the existing contract because it will have ended.

The bonus being this new role can be classed as consultancy and tailored to be outside IR35 in anyone's eyes.

At least this client recognises the importance of domain knowledge. A client I was at outsourced the whole IT department and lost all the domain knowledge of the bespoke systems. I didn't stick around to see how it went but I'm pretty sure not well. I expect a few of those let go with decent redundancy pay were hastily called back on favourable consultancy terms to fill the void.

[BABABlackSheep]

Given the attitude of the client, I somewhat doubt this is going to fly. It's more likely to inflame the situation.

If the contract has passed a review and you have IR35 insurance, I would tell them that I will likely take the extension to Feb, meanwhile try how the market is and if it's bad - accept the extension, otherwise just jump ship.

Great comments, however the above is the situation.

Been here a long time. I’m leaning towards getting out ASAP, getting some training in and applying for something new.

[CompoundOverload]

Great comments, however the above is the situation.

Been here a long time. I’m leaning towards getting out ASAP, getting some training in and applying for something new.

Leave well before the determination date. You don't want an outside/ then in situation.

[BABABlackSheep]

The bonus being this new role can be classed as consultancy and tailored to be outside IR35 in anyone's eyes.

At least this client recognises the importance of domain knowledge. A client I was at outsourced the whole IT department and lost all the domain knowledge of the bespoke systems. I didn't stick around to see how it went but I'm pretty sure not well. I expect a few of those let go with decent redundancy pay were hastily called back on favourable consultancy terms to fill the void.

Actually this client doesn’t. They made all their bespoke system SME’s redundant based on the fact they were going to migrate to a digital platform. They then realised they couldn’t migrate because the old system hadn’t been documented so no one knew what it actually did and it would cost millions to re-design.

So now they can’t develop on the old system either because they have no SME’s ?