IR35 investigations in 2020/21

[boxingbantz]

Can't help but think that next year, if contractors move to smaller companies where the client are except from making IR35 determinations, that this will make contractors choosing to work for them 'easy targets' for an IR35 investigation.

Thoughts?

[cojak]

Can't help but think that next year, if contractors move to smaller companies where the client are except from making IR35 determinations, that this will make contractors choosing to work for them 'easy targets' for an IR35 investigation.

Thoughts?

No, I don't think that will be the case.

[genius]

I contract to a small business by the HMRC definition.

However, it is not clear who is responsible to determine where the decision lies. Are the small business required to tell me the decision still lies with me, or am I meant to just know the size of everyone I contract for? I am not expecting any communication on this, I think it will be business as usual next year.

[ComplianceLady]

I contract to a small business by the HMRC definition.

However, it is not clear who is responsible to determine where the decision lies. Are the small business required to tell me the decision still lies with me, or am I meant to just know the size of everyone I contract for? I am not expecting any communication on this, I think it will be business as usual next year.

This is one of the reasons I don't see this exemption lasting. As it stands the legislation says if you don't get a SDS you should assume it's your responsibility. Impractical to say the least.

[northernladuk]

I don't either. The same risk will risk as it does today. You are responsible for your determination and they can still come and find you as they do now. I don't think it will make you a target more than normal.

The numbers of contractors at small companies compared to the big ones will be minute. They are going to be busy enough with easy meat like the GSK Lloyds and the like without having to go after people following the rules properly.

But.... I can't see the small business exemption being around for long and we'll just go through this whole debacle again. Contractors that paid no heed to IR35 because they were exempt suddenly falling in scope, popping up on here and so on and so on.

[Lance]

I don't either. The same risk will risk as it does today. You are responsible for your determination and they can still come and find you as they do now. I don't think it will make you a target more than normal.

The numbers of contractors at small companies compared to the big ones will be minute. They are going to be busy enough with easy meat like the GSK Lloyds and the like without having to go after people following the rules properly.

But.... I can't see the small business exemption being around for long and we'll just go through this whole debacle again. Contractors that paid no heed to IR35 because they were exempt suddenly falling in scope, popping up on here and so on and so on.

I think it will but for a different reason.

If there are currently 1M contractors working in the private sector, outisde IR35 (that's a made up number).
And come April 700k of those are determined by the client.

That means 300k left self-determining. On that basis they are 3x more likely to be investigated than previously.

ASSUMPTION: The staff who do the investigations of PSCs still want a job and HMRC want them to continue.

[northernladuk]

That means 300k left self-determining. On that basis they are 3x more likely to be investigated than previously..

IMO that is the perfect reason the small business exemption will disappear but they've excluded this lot for a reason at the moment. I'd say it's because it's small potatoes and not cost effective for now.

Once the revenue from those other 700 dries up then yes, the 300 will be the new target.

But that's IMO...

[WordIsBond]

I think it will but for a different reason.

If there are currently 1M contractors working in the private sector, outisde IR35 (that's a made up number).
And come April 700k of those are determined by the client.

That means 300k left self-determining. On that basis they are 3x more likely to be investigated than previously.

ASSUMPTION: The staff who do the investigations of PSCs still want a job and HMRC want them to continue.

Your ASSUMPTION is no doubt sound. But for your statement to be true, there are at least two more:

SECOND ASSUMPTION: Those staff won't be hassling large clients who have made some outside determinations.
THIRD ASSUMPTION: Those staff won't be chasing historical investigations of contractors dumb enough to stay at the same client with a now inside determination when previously they were outside.

I'm guessing some staff will be hassling large clients. And I'm guessing some will be chasing historical cases, as much easier pickings.

[Lance]

Your ASSUMPTION is no doubt sound. But for your statement to be true, there are at least two more:

SECOND ASSUMPTION: Those staff won't be hassling large clients who have made some outside determinations.
THIRD ASSUMPTION: Those staff won't be chasing historical investigations of contractors dumb enough to stay at the same client with a now inside determination when previously they were outside.

I'm guessing some staff will be hassling large clients. And I'm guessing some will be chasing historical cases, as much easier pickings.

the third assumption relies on

FOURTH ASSUMPTION: HMRC lied when they said they won't do this....

[TheCyclingProgrammer]

I contract to a small business by the HMRC definition.

However, it is not clear who is responsible to determine where the decision lies. Are the small business required to tell me the decision still lies with me, or am I meant to just know the size of everyone I contract for? I am not expecting any communication on this, I think it will be business as usual next year.

Simplest solution here is if the client doesn't make any determination or communicate anything to you regarding IR35, assume it is *your* responsibility as it is now. You can't go wrong this way. Do your normal due diligence, if later down the line you are investigated and it turns out the client should have made the determination then it will be them on the hook for it, not you.