Atlantic Umbrella - Any Thoughts / Experience of Them?

[malvolio]

I've seen at least one outfit which advertises an insurance policy which (providing your contract is deemed by them to be outwith IR35) covers you against any IR35 claims. I'm not convinced that the policy is one which you could in reality claim against though. Anyway, my main problem in deciding which way to go is because I'm probably caught by IR35 and I'm reluctant to take a chance.

If you are outside IR35 and use a management company, it looks like yo will still have to pay full taxes and not be able to claim travel. So not a good idea really. If you are inside IR35 (and 98% of professional contractors aren't, actually, so find out properly), then use an umbrella and save all the hassle, but you still might be restricted on expenses, as a result of all those companies that been taking the michael for so long.

All in all, get your own company - but get your IR35 status sorted properly, unless you really enjoy giving away 30% extra tax for no reason.

[KennyG]

Thanks for the comments malvolio but the trouble with "finding out properly" if you're caught by IR35 is that, I believe, the only way that can be done is by HMRC and that puts one in a difficult situation if they decide that you're caught. There are several 'checklists' on the net but the very fact that they differ suggests that (apart from the HMRC) there isn't an absolute way to check if you are 100% within or outside IR35 - only views or opinions.

In my situation, for example, things which keep me outside IR35 are:
1. No payment for holidays.
2. No payment for sickness.
3. No pension.
4. No bonuses.

Conversely, things which would suggest I am caught by IR35 are:
1. I do electronic timesheets which are approved by my boss.
2. I have had just one Client in the last 3 years and have been offered another contract for 2007 which will make it 4 years.
3. The Client provides all the equipment I need for the job.
4. I am on the Client's telephone list (although listed as (C) for Contractor).

I therefore suspect I'm one of the 2% of Contractors who fall within IR35.

[cojak]

My brolly is stating they can as they have had confirmation they are not an MSC.

So what?

I'm 21 with enormous norks.

And I can confirm it...*

*It doesn't mean it's true....

[DaveB]

Thanks for the comments malvolio but the trouble with "finding out properly" if you're caught by IR35 is that, I believe, the only way that can be done is by HMRC and that puts one in a difficult situation if they decide that you're caught. There are several 'checklists' on the net but the very fact that they differ suggests that (apart from the HMRC) there isn't an absolute way to check if you are 100% within or outside IR35 - only views or opinions.

In my situation, for example, things which keep me outside IR35 are:
1. No payment for holidays.
2. No payment for sickness.
3. No pension.
4. No bonuses.

Conversely, things which would suggest I am caught by IR35 are:
1. I do electronic timesheets which are approved by my boss.
2. I have had just one Client in the last 3 years and have been offered another contract for 2007 which will make it 4 years.
3. The Client provides all the equipment I need for the job.
4. I am on the Client's telephone list (although listed as (C) for Contractor).

I therefore suspect I'm one of the 2% of Contractors who fall within IR35.

None of your second list are necesserily pointers to IR35. The contract is what is important. Get yours checked by someone like Bauer and Cotrell or Lawspeed.

[KennyG]

None of your second list are necesserily pointers to IR35. The contract is what is important. Get yours checked by someone like Bauer and Cotrell or Lawspeed.

From what I've read, it's all very well to have a contract say certain things but it only stands up against IR35 if it reflects what is happening in reality.

[DaveB]

From what I've read, it's all very well to have a contract say certain things but it only stands up against IR35 if it reflects what is happening in reality.

That's true, but still none on of the things you listed are necesserily pointers to IR35.

If you are paid a day rate it is entirely reasonable for the client to want records of the number of days you worked in a given period to reconcile against invoices. It doesn't mean you are an employee.

One long term client just means you have a good business relationship with them. You are not claiming any rights based on the length of that relationship and many employees move on without working for an employer for that long.

Client supplying equipment is quote normal for those that want to keep control of their networks and data, especially when working with sensitive information. It's simply good business practice on their part not to let uncontrolled devices access their data.

Since you are listed in the phone books specifically as a contractor that actually points to you not being treated as an employee. Similar arguments apply to ID cards that differ between employees and contractors. The client is making the distinction and ensuring you are not classed an an employee.

[malvolio]

From what I've read, it's all very well to have a contract say certain things but it only stands up against IR35 if it reflects what is happening in reality.

You haven't been keeping up. There are three tests, basically:

1. Have you the right to send a substitute to do your work, perhaps with a degree of client approval (but not outright veto)?

2. Do you have any say in how you do the work or is every action, line of code, naming convention, start time, end time, lunch time, colour of socks or general approach dictated by the client?

3. If you don't turn up, do you get paid. If you do turn up and there's no work for you, do you get paid? If they close for Christmas, do you get paid?

Pass any one of those and the chances are you're outside IR35. So stop faffing around and get an expert opinion. And if you're determined to be inside IR35, what about holiday pay, SSP, maternity leave, pension, employment protection, training..... Understand?

[tim123]

3. If you don't turn up, do you get paid. If you do turn up and there's no work for you, do you get paid? If they close for Christmas, do you get paid?

Sorry Mavolio, only the middle one is an example of MOO, the other two are irrelevent.

tim

[KennyG]

You haven't been keeping up. There are three tests, basically:

1. Have you the right to send a substitute to do your work, perhaps with a degree of client approval (but not outright veto)?

2. Do you have any say in how you do the work or is every action, line of code, naming convention, start time, end time, lunch time, colour of socks or general approach dictated by the client?

3. If you don't turn up, do you get paid. If you do turn up and there's no work for you, do you get paid? If they close for Christmas, do you get paid?

Pass any one of those and the chances are you're outside IR35. So stop faffing around and get an expert opinion. And if you're determined to be inside IR35, what about holiday pay, SSP, maternity leave, pension, employment protection, training..... Understand?

Sorry Mum

[malvolio]

Sorry Mavolio, only the middle one is an example of MOO, the other two are irrelevent.

tim

Really? Do you understand RoS and D&C as clearly?

I was talking about not being inside IR35, since the OP appears to be unaware of the three key tests.