Arctic Systems - how did they get on at each level?

[Fred Bloggs]

I really do think that some posters need to remind themselves of the fact that because they say something is wrong, it doesn't actually make it so. Nor does saying something is right make it so either. This attitude is actually firmly in place elsewhere too and it serves nobody any good except for the warm fuzzy feeling it gives to those who exercise this ridiculous attitude.

[Lance]

I really do think that some posters need to remind themselves of the fact that because they say something is wrong, it doesn't actually make it so. Nor does saying something is right make it so either. This attitude is actually firmly in place elsewhere too and it serves nobody any good except for the warm fuzzy feeling it gives to those who exercise this ridiculous attitude.

citation needed

[northernladuk]

citation needed

Not needed. He's wrong.

[malvolio]

On the latter point you are correct. But it is already happening. I gave four examples ^^^ up there somewhere. There are many others too. There is no doubt what so ever in my mind about Arctic #2. Where we appear to differ is that I think it is already well underway and that Arctic #2 is by stealth and salami tactics. Not a show piece law suit.

And as I said,several organisations are already fighting for mandatory IR35 not to be applied to the private sector; small people like the CBI for instance. The emphasis on this area in the press is one manifestation of how much work is going on

Your representatives at IPSE seem quite unable to recognise this (by design that is exactly what HMG want) and have no idea what they can do anyway.

They fully recognise it and know exactly what should be done. However as long as HMRC are allowed by HMG to publish misleading and uncorroborated information, that will go nowhere. It doesn't mean they won't keep trying to get their point - and that of several other contributors to the IR35 Forum - heard

Actually, they can do nothing. Even a rear guard action will fail, as per recent episodes.

No idea what you're on about. Care to explain?

I am mighty glad I chucked it all in. I am sorry for those following me. Meanwhile TPTB at IPSE are still arguing amongst themselves about "the rules" at their rather pathetic internet forum at every given opportunity. Everyone else has now left.

Haven't seen that at all. Nobody is talking about the rules and haven't been for ages. I will agree their forums are a shadow of what they once were, but things evolve; there are several other channels that are being used.

OK, so not all wrong. You got one minor thing partially correct. Sorry...

[northernladyuk]

Schemes were just simply dodgy. I don't have much sympathy. I looked at them years ago and decided it was too high a risk.
As for PSCs..... If HMRC really wanted to get more tax from them then why wouldn't they do what most of Europe does?

Agreed. Some of the scheme people like to give the whole 'First they came for the offshore loans in a fast depreciating currency contractors' spiel, to try to create a sense of solidarity with honest PSC contractors.

Mind you, seems to work to the extent that CUK gives them their safe spaces, even though they've been undercutting honest PSC contractors for years.

[Lance]

Mind you, seems to work to the extent that CUK gives them their safe spaces, even though they've been underpaying for the benefits, services and opportunites provided by life in the UK for years.

FTFY