IR35 Forum - July minutes
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  1. #1

    Faqqed Off

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    Default IR35 Forum - July minutes

    Minutes from the July IR35 forum can be found here.

    Some interesting things in there, including:

    "HMRC has seen no evidence of significant impact on attrition rates of contractors working in the public sector."

    "Concern that some agencies were reverting to paying the workers as sole traders in order not be caught by the reforms."

    "Conflicting anecdotal suggestions that workers are being forced to accept lower rates when engaged by the public sector, and also that some were negotiating higher rates to compensate for the reforms. HMRC was not aware of any significant movement in contractor rates, but this is a contractual matter."

    "It was noted that there had been no IR35 tribunal cases since September 2011. AR confirmed that there are cases that are likely to be litigated in the near future."

    "Members asked if the recent reforms in the public sector would be extended to the private sector. HMRC explained that the current focus is on embedding the recent reform, and that it was not possible to comment on the plans of the new administration. However, we do of course want to see compliance improve in the private sector."
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    My post count is Majestic

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    Quote Originally Posted by TheFaQQer View Post
    Minutes from the July IR35 forum can be found here.


    "HMRC has seen no evidence of significant impact on attrition rates of contractors working in the public sector."
    ."
    I think I'd have stood up and left the meeting at that point. No point listening to anything else if thst the rubbish they are going to open with.
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    Old Greg is my bitch's bitch

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    Quote Originally Posted by TheFaQQer View Post
    Minutes from the July IR35 forum can be found here.

    Some interesting things in there, including:

    "HMRC has seen no evidence of significant impact on attrition rates of contractors working in the public sector."

    "Concern that some agencies were reverting to paying the workers as sole traders in order not be caught by the reforms."

    "Conflicting anecdotal suggestions that workers are being forced to accept lower rates when engaged by the public sector, and also that some were negotiating higher rates to compensate for the reforms. HMRC was not aware of any significant movement in contractor rates, but this is a contractual matter."

    "It was noted that there had been no IR35 tribunal cases since September 2011. AR confirmed that there are cases that are likely to be litigated in the near future."

    "Members asked if the recent reforms in the public sector would be extended to the private sector. HMRC explained that the current focus is on embedding the recent reform, and that it was not possible to comment on the plans of the new administration. However, we do of course want to see compliance improve in the private sector."
    ...

    James Hacker: The department prepared this. "No loss of amenity" it says.
    Sir Humphrey Appleby: No, Minister, not no loss of amenity; no *significant* loss of amenity.
    James Hacker: Well, same thing.
    Sir Humphrey Appleby: On the contrary, there is all the difference in the world. Almost anything can be attacked as a loss of amenity, and almost anything can be defended as not a significant loss of amenity, which seems to signify that one should appreciate the significance of significant.
    Where there's muck there's brass.

  4. #4

    Double Godlike!

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    Quote Originally Posted by northernladuk View Post
    I think I'd have stood up and left the meeting at that point. No point listening to anything else if thst the rubbish they are going to open with.
    Depends on your definition of "contractors". HMRC will see that as anyone not employed by the Civil Service of any flavour. So the 10ks of freelance contractors are rather overshadowed by the 100ks of Big4 consultants and all the other smaller suppliers.

    But in terms of its stated purpose, the IR35 Forum has ceased to have any real meaning and its pointless maintaining a one-sided dialogue.
    Blog? What blog...?

  5. #5

    Contractor Among Contractors

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    Quote Originally Posted by malvolio View Post
    ...

    But in terms of its stated purpose, the IR35 Forum has ceased to have any real meaning and its pointless maintaining a one-sided dialogue.
    With my tin foil hat on, I suspect that is HMRC's aim.
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    TripleIronDad

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    Quote Originally Posted by ladymuck View Post
    With my tin foil hat on, I suspect that is HMRC's aim.
    Why do you need a tin hat? Of course it is HMRC's aim.
    I keep pushing forwards but they keep pushing me backwards. So I have new rules. 1. Don't feed the trolls you know they have no souls. 2. Don't respond to them they'll only post back back again. 3. Don't be their friend they'll only knife you in the back. I have new rules I count them.

  7. #7

    Godlike

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    The minutes are a joke based on the reality of the discussion (according to IPSE), and hence the forum is no longer fit for purpose (assuming it ever was, which is doubtful), and is actually counterproductive.

  8. #8

    Respect my authoritah!

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    Quote Originally Posted by TheFaQQer View Post
    "HMRC has seen no evidence of significant impact on attrition rates of contractors working in the public sector."
    That's because they haven't looked. (Also from Yes Minister, but can't find the full quote).
    --drunk on abuse of power--

  9. #9
    eek
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    bored now

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    Quote Originally Posted by northernladuk View Post
    I think I'd have stood up and left the meeting at that point. No point listening to anything else if thst the rubbish they are going to open with.
    I actually would have asked why that's different from what I hear when down the pub in Newcastle talking to HMRC PM's but hey that's just local knowledge....

    However HMRC are correct it does seem that people are taking public sector IR35 contracts and it may be that rates haven't changed that much...
    merely at clientco for the entertainment

  10. #10

    More time posting than coding


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    Many of the permie tractors working in the Public Sector are tulip scared to compete in the Private Sector. They're getting contracts rolled over, year on year where they are.

    They may be a few hundred down a month but they're still getting paid more than if they were permie and, generally, are working on their doorstep. They prefer that to working away or maybe having a couple of months between contracts and no money coming in.

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