Undercut by Tier 4 (dependent) on a Visa - but is it legal??? Urgenty welcome advice

[Fred Bloggs]

Sorry but the game is very simple - move up the food chain and specialize in things that don't have competition or expect to be eaten alive....

And this has been the essence of my survival in contracting in the world market that is oil and gas. It first started when the the big design houses introduced the concept of "low cost design centres". That meant sending the hum drum drafting work off shore to India. As time progressed, and the off shoring increased, all the Indians sought to move up the food chain too. And the low cost design centres, became "high value engineering centres". Over the years, fueled by a virtually unlimited supply of graduate engineers, Indians have continued to move up the food chain and we have discovered that the food chain consists of a pyramid with rather steep sides. So as we move up, we move into a narrower space.

Near the top of the space we generally have the blue chip client engineering teams, highly paid, highly specialised industry professionals to be found supervising/managing the contractor companies in the mega projects design offices across the world. Until recently, these guys would almost certainly predominantly be British/European or American, in any case certainly first world guys. Today, I am in such a team. the team is maybe 10 guys. I'm the only westerner.

The moral of the story? For sure, move up the food chain. Trouble is, when you reach the top of the food chain, you'll find Indians are there too.

[pauly]

Its not possible to contract on a work visa because for one it's not permitted on T2G to work via an intermediary and second the agent is legally bound to check the applicants right to work - i.e. passport and visa. Last god knows how many UK contracts I've had since 2011 at least the agent has requested a copy of passport. No comply, no contract.

Thanks.

I don't wanna get in the way of the Brexit/Workforce/Globalisation/Etc... Great Debate this thread may be headed in. However, quick question...


The Visa is T4 (Dependent) - the Biometric card usually has some restrictions about not being able to work as a Dr/Dentist - I understand there are no restrictions about self-employment or working through intermediaries or Agents with this Visa?

Also I assume a T4 (Dependent) can knock up a Ltd Co and pop down to Bank with Passport to set up Business account with no issues (maybe troublesome if they do not have UK credit footprint)? Also I guess it's the same HMRC registration process? And its even easier if opting for umbrella?

If I understand correctly, it's the T4 (General) Visa holder who is restricted with working full-time and setting up a business (as they are supposed to be studying).

[Donvigeo]

As you have decided not to accept reality that the Clientco went for the best candidate mate and you are still very much concern about 'right to work of the other party' could you call the immigration unit 0843 504 7198 or 0300 123 2241. This way am sure you'll be satisfy that you will have your stolen job by immigrant back

Thanks.

I don't wanna get in the way of the Brexit/Workforce/Globalisation/Etc... Great Debate this thread may be headed in. However, quick question...


The Visa is T4 (Dependent) - the Biometric card usually has some restrictions about not being able to work as a Dr/Dentist - I understand there are no restrictions about self-employment or working through intermediaries or Agents with this Visa?

Also I assume a T4 (Dependent) can knock up a Ltd Co and pop down to Bank with Passport to set up Business account with no issues (maybe troublesome if they do not have UK credit footprint)? Also I guess it's the same HMRC registration process? And its even easier if opting for umbrella?

If I understand correctly, it's the T4 (General) Visa holder who is restricted with working full-time and setting up a business (as they are supposed to be studying).

[pauly]

As you have decided not to accept reality that the Clientco went for the best candidate mate and you are still very much concern about 'right to work of the other party'

Something is amiss here and it should be looked into irrespective if of my situation. If the Clientco is hiring people on dodgy basis, I would not want to work for them in any case. If the Agency is being dodge, then it should be called out - as otherwise its practice they will happily adopt moving forward.

If T4 Dependent Visa permits working as contractor through Ltd Co or Umbrella then there is not much to do.

I am just surprised that we are leaving the right-to-work checks to the commission seeking Agents - and not the Clientco who is directly managing and supervising the resource.

[SueEllen]

Thanks.

I don't wanna get in the way of the Brexit/Workforce/Globalisation/Etc... Great Debate this thread may be headed in. However, quick question...


The Visa is T4 (Dependent) - the Biometric card usually has some restrictions about not being able to work as a Dr/Dentist - I understand there are no restrictions about self-employment or working through intermediaries or Agents with this Visa?

Also I assume a T4 (Dependent) can knock up a Ltd Co and pop down to Bank with Passport to set up Business account with no issues (maybe troublesome if they do not have UK credit footprint)? Also I guess it's the same HMRC registration process? And its even easier if opting for umbrella?

If I understand correctly, it's the T4 (General) Visa holder who is restricted with working full-time and setting up a business (as they are supposed to be studying).

You have been told who to call so call them.

Oh and the person won't be working via a limited company. Try opening a bank account in the UK without a UK credit record if you aren't a student.

[Lost It]

Slightly different business but: In my "game" myco had to provide evidence to clients that I am legally allowed to work, and had to do the same for the other guy myco employs.

As I don't have a passport (I have no reason to want to go abroad, plus my personal condition probably would preclude it anyway) that created a few issues... Had to prove to my co that I'm allowed to work here...

[northernladuk]

Slightly different business but: In my "game" myco had to provide evidence to clients that I am legally allowed to work, and had to do the same for the other guy myco employs.

As I don't have a passport (I have no reason to want to go abroad, plus my personal condition probably would preclude it anyway) that created a few issues... Had to prove to my co that I'm allowed to work here...

So you have a reason to get a passport then......

[pauly]

Slightly different business but: In my "game" myco had to provide evidence to clients that I am legally allowed to work, and had to do the same for the other guy myco employs

Presume myco is your employing agency or consulting company? It sounds as though end client in this case felt they did have a responsibility.

Don't know if legally/technically they do as they are not the "employers" of the individual.

In the case of Ltd Co contracting - the legal employer would be the owner of the business - who often is the contractor - would that create a situation where the Ltd Co director (you) is responsible for checking the immigration docs of the employee (you).

[pauly]

You have been told who to call so call them.

Can't go snitch to the authorities when they haven't done anything legally wrong, hence trying to establish that first.

[stek]

Last uk contract I had agency booted a contractor as he was on a T2G. He'd told them he was on T1G to get the gig. Clientco would never have known