Undercut by Tier 4 (dependent) on a Visa - but is it legal??? Urgenty welcome advice

[Fred Bloggs]

How much do you think non-EU fees are at a main stream e.g. traditional university are?

So while it's open to abuse most students don't have a spouse who has skills that put them in the top 10% let alone 5% of UK earners which covers their university fees AND family living costs.

I know how much they are. If a mature student comes over with his young adult dependent relatives, is there a cap on the number who can come here and work? And I think that by no means are we talking about pukka universities. A while back there was media publicity about the dozens of semi-sham colleges that are authorised to provide courses to these visa holders.

[SueEllen]

I know how much they are. If a mature student comes over with his young adult dependent relatives, is there a cap on the number who can come here and work? And I think that by no means are we talking about pukka universities. A while back there was media publicity about the dozens of semi-sham colleges that are authorised to provide courses to these visa holders.

A dependent is only a spouse or civil partner, and children.

The children can only come if both parents come - unless the other parent is dead or you have sole responsibility for the child. You need to bring proof of this.

In regards to children over 16 you need to provide proof they are dependent on you.

[Fred Bloggs]

A dependent is only a spouse or civil partner, and children.

The children can only come if both parents come - unless the other parent is dead or you have sole responsibility for the child. You need to bring proof of this.

In regards to children over 16 you need to provide proof they are dependent on you.

Cheers.

[stek]

A dependent is only a spouse or civil partner, and children.

The children can only come if both parents come - unless the other parent is dead or you have sole responsibility for the child. You need to bring proof of this.

In regards to children over 16 you need to provide proof they are dependent on you.

18 I think SE.

[Donvigeo]

Seems your problem is more to do with immigrant taking your job. I don’t see what the moaning is all about here…. It’s the employer’s market and they are not legally obliged to prefer you to any candidate. Move on mate it’s not your job. It just doesn't add up to conclude by mere email that the agency convinced the employer to take the other candidate over yourself if you’d perform better during the interview, after all if it backfires it’s the employer that will lose out.

Yes, a quick google shows that most universities advertise exactly this. Come here and do a course, and your family will get work authorised in the UK. Makes you wonder if the incentive is the course - or being able to get work in the UK.

Its complex but from what I can see here:


"5.You can be the family member of a Tier 4 (General) applicant where they are applying for, or have been granted, entry clearance, leave to enter, or leave to remain in the United Kingdom as a Tier 4 (General) Student if:

(i) the Tier 4 (General) applicant is a government sponsored student who is applying for, or who has been granted, entry clearance or leave to remain to undertake a course of study longer than six months; or
(ii) the Tier 4 (General) applicant is:
a) applying for, or has been granted entry clearance or leave to remain in order to undertake a course of study at post-graduate level for 12 months or longer;
and
b) is sponsored by a sponsor who is a Recognised Body or a body in receipt of funding as a higher education institution from either:
I. the Department for Employment and Learning in Northern Ireland;
II. the Higher Education Funding Council for England;
III. the Higher Education Funding Council for Wales; or
IV. the Scottish Funding Council"



Basically, if you are doing less than 12m you don't get dependents work authorisation, if doing more than 12m you do.

The course that the partner is doing in this case seems to be from Sept to Sept (less a day). I wonder therefore if the dependent work authorisation is correct? - or if the university is deliberately making it 12m on the dot so they can attract the foreign students due to dependents being able to work?

Also can Clientco get into trouble if something is not right?

Or is the Umbrella company or Agency that is doing the hiring and therefore the Clientco is arm length from it and does not have to care?

[SueEllen]

18 I think SE.

I found the page giving information to foreign students going to the UK to study.

I thought it would be 18 but it states 16.

[pauly]

Seems your problem is more to do with immigrant taking your job. I don’t see what the moaning is all about here…. It’s the employer’s market and they are not legally obliged to prefer you to any candidate. Move on mate it’s not your job. It just doesn't add up to conclude by mere email that the agency convinced the employer to take the other candidate over yourself if you’d perform better during the interview, after all if it backfires it’s the employer that will lose out.

Clientco was told I was not that bothered after the interview and thus the other candidate was better bet. I also found out that Clientco works on an All-in-rate and thus the Agency is pushing people in on the cheap to boost their margins.

The reality of globalisation is that there is probably not much difference in skills set (as long as the other candidate isn't terrible the agent can always sway the Clientco post interview). The decision was swung by the Agent wanting to up their margins with cheap labour, rather than the Clientco benefiting.

The Agent is motivated to help get the immigrant labour setup and dodge any immigration hurdles when their right to stay stops 4m after the partner's course ends.


I assume Umbrella arrangements and Ltd Co's can be set up by non-residents? - Don't need to have residency in any shape or form to make that arrangement? And I assume that Ltd Co Bank Accounts can be setup as well?

Ltd Companies owned by foreigner contractors can also be ditched with no taxes paid as the owner can dart back to the home country with less chance of impacting follow-up.


If something's not right here - and it is on dodgy grounds - is it the Agent or Umbrella that it comes back to - or do Clientco have any responsibility?

There are penalties around this, just unsure who is supposed to do the checking - the Umbrella (if used) the Agent or the Clientco?

[SueEllen]

Clientco was told I was not that bothered after the interview and thus the other candidate was better bet.

At every interview you need to tell the interviewer very clearly that you want their role regardless of whether you have 10 other offers on the table or none. Then act throughout the interview like you do want it until you are out of view.

That way if the agent comes up with tulip - and they do - you have made it clear to the people you have met you want their role.

[pauly]

At every interview you need to tell the interviewer very clearly that you want their role regardless of whether you have 10 other offers on the table or none. Then act throughout the interview like you do want it until you are out of view. That way if the agent comes up with tulip - and they do - you have made it clear to the people you have met you want their role.

All done - I always keep it positive to get the offer. Didn't stop the post interview Agency back-stabbing.


Curious who is on the hook here to ensure the non-resident candidate is bonafide?

If through an Umbrella - the candidate will be employed by them, so should they be doing the checks - else if through Ltd Co, is it the Agent responsibility?

Does Clientco have any legal responsibility in all of this?

And if the work is found to be disguised employee (non IR35 compliant) - then does this mean the Clientco is directly employing and would be responsible?

[SussexSeagull]

Sounds perfectly legal.

On the other hand I would be extremely annoyed if I was up for a role I was fully qualified to do but the agent, and let's not fool ourselves here that margin isn't the sole motivating factor, pushed a cheaper immigrant option onto the client.

Immigration is supposed to supplement the native workforce, not replace it.