Reply to: Undercut by Tier 4 (dependent) on a Visa - but is it legal??? Urgenty welcome advice

[WordIsBond]

The administratively incompetent Agent provided all the details in an email sent accidently. The north based university of study and details where all provided. I was unaware of how a student visa dependent partner had the ability to do IT contract work.

Then if the agent is that administratively incompetent, they may not even know enough about the rules to know if they are doing anything illegal. They may also not be administratively competent enough to pay you properly if you had gotten the contract, and they may be administratively incompetent enough to send your personal details hither and yon. So I'd write them a strongly worded letter demanding that they remove your details from their systems, since you have compelling evidence of their lax behaviour. I'd send the other candidate what the agent sent you, and advise them to research what recourse they have under the Data Protection Act (and I'd send a copy of that to the agent, too).

I'd send the client a letter saying "thank you for the interview, but I thought you needed to know this," and send them a copy of what the agent sent you, your letter to the other candidate, and your letter to the agent. The client may or may not have any liability on immigration issues, probably not, but nobody wants to be a party to any behaviour that falls afoul of the Data Protection Act, and they are engaging the agent so could be construed to be a party to the agent's behaviour. And if the client is alert at all they'll be sure to check any immigration issues as well.

And then, I'd run as far away from THAT agent as you can. You won't get the contract, you'll never get this contract, unless they really preferred you in the first place. But you don't want anything to do with an agent that is so lax about personal details, anyway.

What is there profitably to pursue if they have done something wrong? What possible good could it do you to legally pursue it?

You still never answered this. I still don't see any profit in any of this for you. You aren't getting this contract anyway, no matter what. What I said above MIGHT not give the appearance of sour grapes (because it is the other candidate that was the victim), but anything else would.

But if you are just on a campaign for Truth and Justice, first watch a good performance of The Merchant of Venice. And then, if you are still on a campaign for Truth and Justice, do what I said above. Forget the immigration thing and go after the data protection thing. That is something that is known, it is obvious, and you aren't the loser by it.

[SueEllen]

T4 applicants pay a years fees upfront plus have to show three months living costs for the applicant and all dependents, and has to be held for three months prior. Check this as rules will have change, certainly tightened up.

https://www.immigrationboards.com/uk...student-visas/

Have a moan there see if they can advise, some real gurus there, who help for free having been though the process themselves. Just have a read first and don't just jump, thread-bump for answers and clear off. I've been on it since 2005 helping folks who've had visa woes that match my experiences...

You are really patient.

The OP could have found a lot of the info themselves just by Googling.

[stek]

T4 applicants pay a years fees upfront plus have to show three months living costs for the applicant and all dependents, and has to be held for three months prior. Check this as rules will have change, certainly tightened up.

https://www.immigrationboards.com/uk...student-visas/

Have a moan there see if they can advise, some real gurus there, who help for free having been though the process themselves. Just have a read first and don't just jump, thread-bump for answers and clear off. I've been on it since 2005 helping folks who've had visa woes that match my experiences...

[pauly]

Your not getting it at all.
1. To extend a student visa you have to have a uni place (CAS), show progression, i.e. BA/MA/PhD, no stepping sideways are starting again. A CAS will not be allocated unless the uni 100% sure it meets the above.

Can look into this, however most institutions are easily bluffed (think bogus colleagues) and the uni's would want the international students fees$$$'s. Well so what.. do a MA after a BA or PhD after a MA.

Your not getting it at all.
2. No amount of pressure from the agent will change that, nor funding, UKVI isn't daft and lets not forget you're looking at £15-25k pa for international students.

Yep, but 15-25k cost is a no-brainer if you can secure a £80-100k+pa contract role. Plus partner gets a education and you get to live in a prefered country.

Your not getting it at all.
3. To sponsor T2 visas as an employer you have to be a registered sponsor, pay fees and the applicant must work directly for the sponsor - i.e. cannot be pimped out. Also you cannot contract on a T2.

Ok, you know more. But why can't recruitment agencies pivot to be consultancies or have sister companies that are? What's the difference? Accenture or Deloitte are body shopping people out for billable hours as agencies are.

You seem to know a lot about this rival T4 Dep, the incompetent agents email story is obviously bullshiit, my money is on an agenda here, mate of yours trying to kid an agent?

You know the UK immigration process well, if you responding to job boards you probably see all sorts. In this case, I will happily take your money.

[stek]

There probably wasn't much in it with candidate competent comparison - generally there isn't nowadays. In this case the candidate dependent has more years before the 6yrs cap you indicated - I guess they can just do another course with the sole intend to get their dependent continued work authorization.

I think the agent is doing some'ick dodge (they have already shown incompetence by leaking the information out). I guess there are a range of things agent can do to create immigrant dependency and thus control - part fund a further course? Raise a proper work visa for candidate as the agent is technically the employer? As long as it make ££sense, they can do it and provides control and thus more profit from the candidate.

Why do you think USA tech companies sponsor 65,000 plus H-1B's visas into silicon valley? - its a perfect source of cheap labour that is dependent on the employer for rights to stay (potentially at the cost of local labour) and thus you can pay them at lot less and they ain't leaving. It looks like its in for an overhaul at this time as well.

What is big Clientco's responsibility in all this? If they are willing to take the risk and continue the immigration then there is nothing to do as long as they follow the law. If however they are unaware (as they are not required to check???) - then the people trafficking agencies will mint desperate candidates.

Your not getting it at all.

1. To extend a student visa you have to have a uni place (CAS), show progression, i.e. BA/MA/PhD, no stepping sideways are starting again. A CAS will not be allocated unless the uni 100% sure it meets the above.

2. No amount of pressure from the agent will change that, nor funding, UKVI isn't daft and lets not forget you're looking at £15-25k pa for international students.

3. To sponsor T2 visas as an employer you have to be a registered sponsor, pay fees and the applicant must work directly for the sponsor - i.e. cannot be pimped out. Also you cannot contract on a T2.

You seem to know a lot about this rival T4 Dep, the incompetent agents email story is obviously bullshiit, my money is on an agenda here, mate of yours trying to kid an agent?

[pauly]

That makes no sense, why would the agent press for a candidate he knew would like be gone in a few months when the student visa (and there the dependant visa) expires. That's gonna hit his pocket. Remember there's a cap on student visa re how long you can study, (6 years 11 months) and let's face it, the length of study is only for the brilliant and privileged few, gone are the days you could limp from pointless course to pointless course, now there's the cap and even that's set low enough to deter those studying for 10 years to get 10 year legal stay ILR. It seems clear to me the other guy/gal is better skilled and worth the risk.

There probably wasn't much in it with candidate competent comparison - generally there isn't nowadays. In this case the candidate's partner has more years before the 6yrs cap you indicated - I guess they can just do another course with the sole intend to get their dependent continued work authorization.

I think the agent is doing some'ick dodge (they have already shown incompetence by leaking the information out). I guess there are a range of things an agent can do to create immigrant dependency and thus control - part fund a further course? Raise a proper work visa for candidate as the agent is technically the employer? As long as it make ££sense, they can do it and provides control and thus more profit from the candidate.

Why do you think USA tech companies sponsor 65,000 plus H-1B's visas into silicon valley? - its a perfect source of cheap labour that is dependent on the employer for rights to stay (potentially at the cost of local labour) and thus you can pay them at lot less cause the immigrant worker can't leave an employer easily. It looks like its in for an overhaul at this time as well.

What is big Clientco's responsibility in all this? If they are willing to take the risk and continue the immigration then there is nothing to do as long as they follow the law. If however they are unaware (as they are not required to check???) - then the people trafficking agencies will mint desperate candidates.

[stek]

The administratively incompetent Agent provided all the details in an email sent accidently. The north based university of study and details where all provided. I was unaware of how a student visa dependent partner had the ability to do IT contract work.

I have a feeling that something is amiss as the dependent visa will run out and the agent is probably covering up to get the visa candidate in (as it appears Clientco does not have to check this) and then get candidate extended - its more profitable for the Agent then a non-visa candidate and the Clientco is probably blissfully unaware.

That makes no sense, why would the agent press for a candidate he knew would like be gone in a few months when the student visa (and there the dependant visa) expires. That's gonna hit his pocket. Remember there's a cap on student visa re how long you can study, (6 years 11 months) and let's face it, the length of study is only for the brilliant and privileged few, gone are the days you could limp from pointless course to pointless course, now there's the cap and even that's set low enough to deter those studying for 10 years to get 10 year legal stay ILR.

It seems clear to me the other guy/gal is better skilled and worth the risk.

[pauly]

What is there profitably to pursue if they have done something wrong? What possible good could it do you to legally pursue it? And what evidence do you have? How do you know so much about the person who got the job, anyway? You know when the student visa is up, what they are studying, all that? Really? For some reason, I think there's more here than we're being told.

The administratively incompetent Agent provided all the details in an email sent accidently. The north based university of study and details where all provided. I was unaware of how a student visa dependent partner had the ability to do IT contract work.

I have a feeling that something is amiss as the dependent visa will run out and the agent is probably covering up to get the visa candidate in (as it appears Clientco does not have to check this) and then get candidate extended - its more profitable for the Agent then a non-visa candidate and the Clientco is probably blissfully unaware.

[WordIsBond]

Thanks. What is there to legally pursue unless the Contractor, Agency or Clientco have done something wrong?

What is there profitably to pursue if they have done something wrong? What possible good could it do you to legally pursue it?

And what evidence do you have? How do you know so much about the person who got the job, anyway? You know when the student visa is up, what they are studying, all that? Really?

For some reason, I think there's more here than we're being told.

[Lance]

This issue is the predatory behaviour of the Agency looking for cheap labour to line their pockets.

Where I come from that is called BUSINESS.

[Lance]

Time to investigate your scapula for evidence of sliced fried potato products...

brilliant

[shanti]

OP does raise a question about responsibilities in these scenarios between the tri-parties of worker, agency and ultimate client.

HMRC has plenty of details about supervision, control and direction in order to determine tax liabilities. And these impact on legal status as well.

If a person is checked out by agencies and then is determined to be a disguised employee, then it would be the liability of the client to ensure he is authorised. With this in mind, I would assume that most clients should do the checks of any agency worker themselves considering the potentail liabilities.

[pauly]

Alternatively why don’t you pursue it the legal way since you have an email

Thanks. What is there to legally pursue unless the Contractor, Agency or Clientco have done something wrong? Hence the queries regarding the rights and responsibilities of parties involved.

[Donvigeo]

This is for Tier 2 visa holders otherwise known as ‘work permit’. If I were you I’d dust my CV and move on instead of moaning about immigrants stole my job, alternatively why don’t you pursue it the legal way since you have an email ( though I pretty much doubt you do have any email!). The amount of time you have spent on here moaning is enough to get you a new role mate

Theresa May to charge firms £2,000 for each non-EU migrant they employ - Business Insider

May's manifesto unveils doubling the recent charge for non EU workers.

Would a Clientco face exposure to this charge when taking on an non-EU Agency LtdCo/Umbrella worker?

[pauly]

Theresa May to charge firms £2,000 for each non-EU migrant they employ - Business Insider

May's manifesto unveils doubling the recent charge for non EU workers.

Would a Clientco face exposure to this charge when taking on an non-EU Agency LtdCo/Umbrella worker?