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Who to pursue for unpaid time when working via an umbrella?

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    Who to pursue for unpaid time when working via an umbrella?

    Hi, so I have a situation whereby I was working at a company, the role was arranged via an agency, but I invoiced my time through an umbrella (so technically I'm an employee of them I guess). I didn't sign a contract with the agency, the agency had a contract with the umbrella company.

    I submitted a timesheet which included time worked off-site (i.e. at home), but the company refused to authorise the timesheet saying that they do not have confidence that the hours are representative (quote). In my role, there isn't any real output other than reviewing tech data, so it's impossible to demonstrate that I was actually working, even though I was using the company laptop at home. It turns out that this particular client allows permanent staff to work from home at will, but doesn't like contractors doing the same. (the first time in my sector I've ever come across such a distinction)

    So, by refusing to sign off the timesheet, they are effectively accusing me of fraud, but will not say as much. Needless to say the contract ended at this point.

    I have therefore worked as directed but am being refused payment. So, who do I sue? The agency? The client?

    Any advice appreciated!
    Last edited by Mercury; 16 August 2016, 23:14.

    #2
    Originally posted by Mercury View Post
    Hi, so I have a situation whereby I was working at a company, the role was arranged via an agency, but I invoiced my time through an umbrella (so technically I'm an employee of them I guess). I didn't sign a contract with the agency, the agency had a contract with the umbrella company.

    I submitted a timesheet which included time worked off-site (i.e. at home), but the company refused to authorise the timesheet saying that they do not have confidence that the hours are representative (quote). In my role, there isn't any real output other than reviewing tech data, so it's impossible to demonstrate that I was actually working, even though I was using the company laptop at home. It turns out that this particular client allows permanent staff to work from home at will, but doesn't like contractors doing the same. (the first time in my sector I've ever come across such a distinction)

    So, by refusing to sign off the timesheet, they are effectively accusing me of fraud, but will not say as much. Needless to say the contract ended at this point.

    I have therefore worked as directed but am being refused payment. So, who do I sue? The agency? The client?

    Any advice appreciated!
    Were you asked to work off-site or did you discuss working off-site before doing so.

    Also are they refusing to pay for the time you were in the office?
    Last edited by VillageContractor; 17 August 2016, 08:11.

    Comment


      #3
      Originally posted by Mercury View Post
      It turns out that this particular client allows permanent staff to work from home at will, but doesn't like contractors doing the same. (the first time in my sector I've ever come across such a distinction)
      That's a pretty fundamental and naïve mistake to make. You are a contractor not a permie. Assuming you can do the same as them is not very smart. IR35 is all about not being treated the same as a permie. As a supplier to a client you shouldn't care what permies are allowed to do. You are not a permie.

      I'm surprised you've never come across the distinction as well. Every single gig I've ever had has some for of distinction even if it's just giving the heads up to your client manager or earning their trust first. If you've not spotted it this time could you not checking be why you haven't seen it before?
      So, by refusing to sign off the timesheet, they are effectively accusing me of fraud, but will not say as much. Needless to say the contract ended at this point.
      Not really. You are in a business dispute at first. They don't believe you've put the hours in, you do. Banding the term fraud around doesn't help anything.
      I have therefore worked as directed but am being refused payment. So, who do I sue? The agency? The client?
      You've never sued anyone before have you?

      First thing to do is gather evidence to back your claim up. Anything you can, tangible or intangible and put your argument to them. There has got to be something. You can't resolve a dispute with fresh air. Once you've proved you've got a case then you can put it to them and if that doesn't work you could try a solicitor but you need proof.

      Exactly how much are we talking about here?
      'CUK forum personality of 2011 - Winner - Yes really!!!!

      Comment


        #4
        Originally posted by northernladuk View Post
        That's a pretty fundamental and naïve mistake to make. You are a contractor not a permie. Assuming you can do the same as them is not very smart. IR35 is all about not being treated the same as a permie. As a supplier to a client you shouldn't care what permies are allowed to do. You are not a permie.
        literally in the first line

        Originally posted by Mercury View Post
        but I invoiced my time through an umbrella (so technically I'm an employee of them I guess).
        why do you always jump on the IR35 wagon irrespective of actual question?

        Comment


          #5
          Originally posted by pr1 View Post
          literally in the first line



          why do you always jump on the IR35 wagon irrespective of actual question?
          Because if you spend enough time on here many questions are based on something else and nothing wrong with check an OPs knowledge rather than give an answer that might be wrong because we don't know other aspects.

          That said in this particular case it wasn't needed as you point out but the point was that he is not a permie. That distinction still stands even if I've mistakenly mentioned IR35 in this case.
          'CUK forum personality of 2011 - Winner - Yes really!!!!

          Comment


            #6
            Originally posted by pr1 View Post
            literally in the first line

            why do you always jump on the IR35 wagon irrespective of actual question?
            He generally thinks that if you're not a limited company contractor operating outside of IR35 then you're not a contractor.
            The greatest trick the devil ever pulled was convincing the world that he didn't exist

            Comment


              #7
              Originally posted by northernladuk View Post
              Because if you spend enough time on here many questions are based on something else and nothing wrong with check an OPs knowledge rather than give an answer that might be wrong because we don't know other aspects.

              That said in this particular case it wasn't needed as you point out but the point was that he is not a permie. That distinction still stands even if I've mistakenly mentioned IR35 in this case.
              Surely mistaken, given the OP stated he was through an umbrella.

              Comment


                #8
                Originally posted by Mercury View Post
                So, by refusing to sign off the timesheet, they are effectively accusing me of fraud, but will not say as much. Needless to say the contract ended at this point.
                What are you 12?

                Did you even discuss it with the client? What was the response of the person responsible for signing off your time sheets?

                If there is now tangible way to establish how much work you did from home it's perfectly natural for the Client to demand you work onsite only? Did you even ask if you can work remotely? What does your contract says on this matter?

                Comment


                  #9
                  You can sue anyone, who you should sue is another questions, both the brolly and agency will try to wash their hands of your problem, as it is your problem.

                  Did you agree to WFH in advance, or at least let the client know as a matter of professional courtesy? What happened while you were at home, any proof of emails sent etc, access to systems etc? What happened the next time you were in the office, was anything mentioned?
                  Originally posted by Stevie Wonder Boy
                  I can't see any way to do it can you please advise?

                  I want my account deleted and all of my information removed, I want to invoke my right to be forgotten.

                  Comment


                    #10
                    Originally posted by LondonManc View Post
                    He generally thinks that if you're not a limited company contractor operating outside of IR35 then you're not a contractor.
                    No he doesn't.. He just messed up his first statement and should have said being a contractor is not the same as being a permie...
                    merely at clientco for the entertainment

                    Comment

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