• Visitors can check out the Forum FAQ by clicking this link. You have to register before you can post: click the REGISTER link above to proceed. To start viewing messages, select the forum that you want to visit from the selection below. View our Forum Privacy Policy.
  • Want to receive the latest contracting news and advice straight to your inbox? Sign up to the ContractorUK newsletter here. Every sign up will also be entered into a draw to WIN £100 Amazon vouchers!

House purchase - 10% deposit versus 20% and other factors

Collapse
X
  •  
  • Filter
  • Time
  • Show
Clear All
new posts

    #11
    As was noted, whether the price of the house changes is irrelevant to this decision.

    Also as was noted, it's roughly equivalent to increasing the cost of the house by £10K. I think this is helpful, in that it really doesn't matter whether the money is going to tax or to buy the house, it is going.

    So, you have an option to reduce your company's cash holdings by £50K, with the benefit that you will have a personal asset of £40K (increased equity). And that asset will be invested in something pretty safe that also gives a pretty good return for a safe investment. The proceeds have two components:
    1. 2.54% on the £40K itself. That's how much interest you would have been paying on the mortgage, and you would have been paying it out of after-tax funds, so by not having to pay it, it is tax-free return on investment.
    2. 0.2% on the rest of the mortgage. By having a larger deposit, you'll get a better rate on the rest of your mortgage, the other £300K or so. Since this is also reducing the mortgage interest you would pay, it is also tax-free. This is roughly equivalent to another 1.5% on your £40K.

    So, your £50K of company money buys you a personal £40K investment paying around 4% tax-free. That's probably not too bad.

    One thing you haven't told us -- are you going into the higher rate band every year, or will you have to be to pay the mortgage and live? If so, you aren't really paying extra tax to take the funds now, you are just bringing the tax forward, which means it really isn't costing you £9500, that is tax you would have been paying later anyway to be able to make mortgage payments. On the other hand, if you are staying well below the higher rate band every year, then you might be better taking the bigger mortgage but taking funds up to the HRB and reducing the mortgage rapidly.

    One alternate thought. Sounds like you are on a 2 year deal. If you remortgage in two years, then the "life of the mortgage" numbers you gave are irrelevant. All that matters is the difference in equity and the difference in payments for the next two years.

    Of course, there's a risk you won't be able to remortgage. Maybe banks will decide they hate contractors as much as HMRC does. Maybe the government will pass a law forbidding banks to offer mortgages to anyone outside IR35. Maybe Brexit will cause wars and banking collapses and Ebola outbreaks and the widespread starvation of little children and the death of all butterflies and (horrors!) even unhappiness among some politicians.

    But I'd guess you will be able to remortgage. And if so, possibly due to housing price increases, possibly due to overpayments you've been able to make, you could be a lot closer to 20% equity. Even if not, you could revisit all of this then. In other words, you could just kick this decision down the road until you remortgage. It would cost you £200 / month for the next two years to do that (but obviously, you'd still have your £50K in your company). You might have to decide sooner if they increase the dividend tax again, because if you ARE going to do it you'd want to get your funds out of the company before the "new, improved" (higher) div tax kicks in.

    If it were me, I'd pull out the £50K now. I'm old enough to remember when being mortgage-free, and doing everything you could to get there, was a good thing. Debt is fine for everyone else to have if they want, but I hate the stuff. I'd pull out the £50K AND make the higher (£1540/month) payments, personally. I wanted my mortgage to die ASAP. But it seems to me in your case there are arguments to be made both ways, because I hate making decisions that incur taxes almost as much as I hate debt. So it's what suits you best.

    Comment


      #12
      One thing I would add is that there is a possibility (probability) that the 2.5% interest rate you can get now will not be available next time around - interest rates may at some point rise.

      As such I would be endeavoring to pay off as much as possible now in case rates return to their old levels of 5-6%...
      merely at clientco for the entertainment

      Comment


        #13
        Offer £10k less on the house.

        The London market is static at best and asking prices are being cut.

        Comment


          #14
          Some great comments from WiB that I would agree with. I also hate debt and paying off my mortgage(s) is an old-fashioned objective of mine that I am keen to achieve. I do, however, believe that tax efficiency is key; I would do all in my power to avoid paying that extra £9,500 - it's a huge hit to take.

          You could look at a director's loan. £10k is tax-free. £10k possibly for your spouse too. So that's £20k that you can make use of until you can repay it with paper-dividends to avoid S455. You can even loan a larger amount and then pay 3% interest (back to your own company). This is something I've done before.

          EDIT:
          1. I like GB9's idea of reducing your offer. This is a risky move though and you could lose the house over it.
          2. I would not worry about rates going up any time soon. Vote Brexit and rates might actually go down
          Last edited by ChimpMaster; 23 May 2016, 08:54.

          Comment


            #15
            Originally posted by PerfectStorm View Post
            Trapped in a bit of a quandary at the moment. Currently going through a house purchase and deciding between 10% and 20% deposit. Lender is Halifax.

            House is £380,000

            10% deposit:
            Have enough cash at hand to pay without taking much additional dividend
            2.54% interest on payments
            £1541 a month
            £462,350 repayable

            20% deposit
            Will need to take about £50k dividend resulting in £9500 income tax
            2.34% interest on payments
            £1339 a month
            £401,828 repayable

            Has anyone come up against this before and what did you do? On the face of it, the 20% seems to be (in the short term) a worse way of doing things, because of the £9500 dividend tax. However, as this is London and everything is accelerating in price, is it better to take the hit and have 20% of the equity as its value increases? I suppose the real question is "can we expect the 20%, with tax included, to outperform 10% with no tax to pay"... maybe)

            Is there a stand-out best option here or are they both about equal? Would be interested to hear views of others and what they did in this situation.
            Run the figures to see what it would look like if the rate was more 4.5%
            Originally posted by Stevie Wonder Boy
            I can't see any way to do it can you please advise?

            I want my account deleted and all of my information removed, I want to invoke my right to be forgotten.

            Comment


              #16
              Is it an offset mortgage (or does it allow overpayments)?


              If it is, then go for the 10% and just pump as much cash into it as you can. (depending on Hector, I'm hoping to pay off a 20 year mortgage in 10)
              …Maybe we ain’t that young anymore

              Comment


                #17
                Originally posted by WTFH View Post
                Is it an offset mortgage (or does it allow overpayments)?


                If it is, then go for the 10% and just pump as much cash into it as you can. (depending on Hector, I'm hoping to pay off a 20 year mortgage in 10)
                It won't be an offset at those rates but my Halifax mortgage allows overpayments.
                'CUK forum personality of 2011 - Winner - Yes really!!!!

                Comment


                  #18
                  I presume you have done due diligence on affordability over the long term ? Someone mentioned interest rates at 5-6% but we have had them as high as 15%...

                  I think we are heading into a very uncertain future. EU in or out, a market of house owners who won't withstand a couple of % rise, chances of a second world wide depression....

                  Comment


                    #19
                    Originally posted by PerfectStorm View Post
                    Trapped in a bit of a quandary at the moment. Currently going through a house purchase and deciding between 10% and 20% deposit. Lender is Halifax.

                    House is £380,000

                    10% deposit:
                    Have enough cash at hand to pay without taking much additional dividend
                    2.54% interest on payments
                    £1541 a month
                    £462,350 repayable

                    20% deposit
                    Will need to take about £50k dividend resulting in £9500 income tax
                    2.34% interest on payments
                    £1339 a month
                    £401,828 repayable

                    Has anyone come up against this before and what did you do? On the face of it, the 20% seems to be (in the short term) a worse way of doing things, because of the £9500 dividend tax. However, as this is London and everything is accelerating in price, is it better to take the hit and have 20% of the equity as its value increases? I suppose the real question is "can we expect the 20%, with tax included, to outperform 10% with no tax to pay"... maybe)

                    Is there a stand-out best option here or are they both about equal? Would be interested to hear views of others and what they did in this situation.
                    Have you considered taking as much as you can out of LTD as director's loan?
                    This is the cheapest way to borrow money.
                    There is a topic here in which we discussed this loan option, but in a nutshell you pay back to your LTD 3% interest on which you pay 20% corp tax. I.e. for £1000 you pay £30 per year interest and on that you pay £6 in corp tax, so the cost for £1000 is £6. Also the money go back into LTD.

                    Comment


                      #20
                      Originally posted by garnet View Post
                      Have you considered taking as much as you can out of LTD as director's loan?
                      This is the cheapest way to borrow money.
                      There is a topic here in which we discussed this loan option, but in a nutshell you pay back to your LTD 3% interest on which you pay 20% corp tax. I.e. for £1000 you pay £30 per year interest and on that you pay £6 in corp tax, so the cost for £1000 is £6. Also the money go back into LTD.
                      I mentioned this above with the warning about S455 taxation.

                      It is a good idea to leverage the funds you have direct access to. I have done this before; I actually borrowed a big lump from the Ltd, bought a house and then re-mortgaged to pay off the loan before the time limit for S455.

                      It's better if you can time it so that you can keep the loan for the maximum amount of time, ~20 months.

                      Comment

                      Working...
                      X