Caunce O'Hara Legal Expenses Insurance

[TykeMerc]

I think you need to understand that snide throw away lines like this aren't helpful to your argument.

HTH BIDI

One of the reasons that IPSE has had such a lousy reputation with some CUK posters is because of that snide attitude backed up with massive dollops of arrogance and holier than thou behaviour topped off with a flat refusal to acknowledge fault even when proven unequivocally wrong.

Caunce O'Hara have been recommended in the past on CUK as reputable professional insurance providers.

[malvolio]

In that case you still need to put it on your P11D and self assessment?
https://www.gov.uk/expenses-benefits...report-and-pay

It's not a BIK and the expenditure goes nowhere near my personal account, so why? Even if I do it's a zero sum and HMRC really aren't that bothered, according to my very contractor-savvy accountants.

[malvolio]

One of the reasons that IPSE has had such a lousy reputation with some CUK posters is because of that snide attitude backed up with massive dollops of arrogance and holier than thou behaviour topped off with a flat refusal to acknowledge fault even when proven unequivocally wrong.

If you're going to pick that particular sore, then it's only me that does that. (Hint: the clue is in the forum name and has been for over ten years). And it's not me that decided or claimed I was speaking for IPSE when all I am on this site is a satisfied member trying to balance some of the more extreme views expressed on here

And in this particular case the OP's question clearly showed they don't (didn't...) appreciate the difference between personal and company monies so a gentle reminder was thought to be in order.

Caunce O'Hara have been recommended in the past on CUK as reputable professional insurance providers.

Yes, I know, nobody's arguing about that. We're talking about something a lot wider than PEI though

[mudskipper]

Caunce O'Hara have been recommended in the past on CUK as reputable professional insurance providers.

Agree with that, but there is little detail (that I can find) about the tax investigation product on the website. If that's all the OP is after, and he's happy that they will come good when the tulip hits the fan (and no reason to assume they won't), then it is significantly cheaper than IPSE membership.

But there is a good reason why so many are IPSE members regardless of whether you're interested in the political and lobbying efforts, and that is the value for money for the range of benefits offered, and track record on defending IR35 cases (what many members are there for).

[Contreras]

Caunce O'Hara have been recommended in the past on CUK as reputable professional insurance providers.

Yes, I know, nobody's arguing about that. We're talking about something a lot wider than PEI though But I sense a threat to IPSE and therefore feel it is my duty to derail the thread.

FTFY

[malvolio]

FTFY

Deluded as usual.

[FiddlersGreen]

Yes of course I've checked. IT's a personal membership but since it is wholly and exclusively for the business - on the basis that I wouldn't need if I didn't have MyCo - it's fully justified for MyCo to pick up the bill.

It has to be personal because the case will be against you, not YourCo.

"The case will be against you, not YourCo" ?

[FiddlersGreen]

Agree with that, but there is little detail (that I can find) about the tax investigation product on the website. If that's all the OP is after, and he's happy that they will come good when the tulip hits the fan (and no reason to assume they won't), then it is significantly cheaper than IPSE membership.

But there is a good reason why so many are IPSE members regardless of whether you're interested in the political and lobbying efforts, and that is the value for money for the range of benefits offered, and track record on defending IR35 cases (what many members are there for).

Playing Devils Advocate. What is value for money with insurance?
In general, insurance can only pay out a fraction of the premiums (loss ratio). If on average customers get much less than 75% back then it is not "value for money" in my books. At best with its very tax inefficient membership, IPSE cannot even achieve this with zero overheads. I suspect it is far, far, far worse than that.

I think it is possible that the percentage that is paid back is so low that it is virtually worthless joining IPSE for the "insurance".

I am not saying there are not lots of reasons to join, but I would not for the "insurance".

[malvolio]

Playing Devils Advocate. What is value for money with insurance?
In general, insurance can only pay out a fraction of the premiums (loss ratio). If on average customers get much less than 75% back then it is not "value for money" in my books. At best with its very tax inefficient membership, IPSE cannot even achieve this with zero overheads. I suspect it is far, far, far worse than that.

I think it is possible that the percentage that is paid back is so low that it is virtually worthless joining IPSE for the "insurance".

I am not saying there are not lots of reasons to join, but I would not for the "insurance".

Assume you pay £100 for PEI insurance. Get a brown envelope from Hector saying you owe him several thousands in tax and your expenses are going to be disallowed. Proving he's mistaken will cost you a minimum £15k in advice and legal fees; the Arctic case was well over a million. Still think it's expensive? All insurance is a waste of money until you need it, no matter who you get it from or how.

That aside, the advice and support you get from IPSE probably means the envelope won't arrive in the first place.

[FiddlersGreen]

Assume you pay £100 for PEI insurance. Get a brown envelope from Hector saying you owe him several thousands in tax and your expenses are going to be disallowed. Proving he's mistaken will cost you a minimum £15k in advice and legal fees; the Arctic case was well over a million. Still think it's expensive? All insurance is a waste of money until you need it, no matter who you get it from or how.

That aside, the advice and support you get from IPSE probably means the envelope won't arrive in the first place.

And the chances of that are several thousand to one making the "cover" worth £1 on average. In my case it is probably closer to £0. Should I subsidize the stupid who can't tell the difference between themselves and their company and think personal membership is corporate membership? (which seems to be the typical level of you and other IPSE experts)