Offsite business meetings

**tarbera** · 28 October 2014, 10:35

Originally posted by pacontracting View Post

After the Christmas Party discussion (below), I'd like to discuss something else that large consultancy companies do but contractors don't - namely the offsite.

I come from a consultancy background (when I was employed) so all this seems old and normal to me but... speaking to a contractor - they seemed surprised.

Every quarter, myself and my wife (the only two directors of the company) go away to a country hotel to discuss strategy. This is minuted and involves conversations like the state of the current contract, analysis of the business plan spreadsheet, discussion of financial documents e.g. profit/loss, balance sheet, future rate discussions, insurance options, website design, prospective clients, future plans etc.

We usually travel about 50 miles away, stay in a hotel, have the meeting, have dinner, stay overnight then come back the next day. We usually charge all of this to the company as a business expense.

Thoughts?

Don't forget to charge your mileage !!

**TheFaQQer** · 28 October 2014, 10:42

Originally posted by pacontracting View Post

Thoughts?

Is it listed as HMRC as a specific exemption to the expenses rules? If not, then it needs to fall into the wholly, exclusively for the business rule with only an incidental benefit to the individual.

I think you'd have a hard time justifying the cost as a valid business expense that does not incur any benefit in kind charge, if HMRC went through your accounts. If there were logistical challenges to getting the meeting participants together (for example, a consultancy with employees scattered over the country; a company where the board of directors were at very different geographical locations), then you might have some justification for needing to travel somewhere and stay away. As it is you and your wife choosing to leave your company trading address and travel away from that so that you can have a meal and night away, I'd say there is no chance that it would survive an investigation.

**northernladuk** · 28 October 2014, 12:07

Sounds like a load of pap to me and personally it just isn't worth the money to push the boundaries. It's not like you are on the breadline and have to bleed every penny you can out of the company regardless of how close to the line you have to go...

But that's IMHO.

**pacontracting** · 28 October 2014, 12:12

Originally posted by northernladuk View Post

Sounds like a load of pap to me and personally it just isn't worth the money to push the boundaries. It's not like you are on the breadline and have to bleed every penny you can out of the company regardless of how close to the line you have to go...

But that's IMHO.

Fair enough. To be fair, were it not the business angle, we probably wouldn't do this anyway. We have enough personal holidays etc to keep our travelling bug at bay. The reasoning is - if we're going to do this, rather than doing it in our house, we choose to do it in style. Bit like travelling first class over standard. I could travel standard but choose not to do so.

**northernladuk** · 28 October 2014, 12:14

Originally posted by pacontracting View Post

Fair enough. To be fair, were it not the business angle, we probably wouldn't do this anyway. We have enough personal holidays etc to keep our travelling bug at bay. The reasoning is - if we're going to do this, rather than doing it in our house, we choose to do it in style. Bit like travelling first class over standard. I could travel standard but choose not to do so.

Not sure who you are trying to convince cause it certainly isn't me.

If you want to do it then do it. No one is stopping you and it's highly unlikely you will get investigated so just go ahead instead of bothering asking us. You know what you are going to do anyway so nothing we say will make a blind bit of difference.

**TheFaQQer** · 28 October 2014, 12:34

Originally posted by pacontracting View Post

Fair enough. To be fair, were it not the business angle, we probably wouldn't do this anyway. We have enough personal holidays etc to keep our travelling bug at bay. The reasoning is - if we're going to do this, rather than doing it in our house, we choose to do it in style. Bit like travelling first class over standard. I could travel standard but choose not to do so.

If you were travelling on business, then there is no issue - HMRC have documented this in their expenses manual.

Taking your wife away for an overnight stay and expensing it on the grounds that you'd prefer to have a meeting away from your office isn't something that is going to be accepted by HMRC.

But since the chances of getting caught are low, trebles all round.

**d000hg** · 28 October 2014, 13:53

Travelling 50 miles to have a meeting with someone you live with is hardly good business sense.

**LisaContractorUmbrella** · 28 October 2014, 14:11

Originally posted by pacontracting View Post

Fair enough. To be fair, were it not the business angle, we probably wouldn't do this anyway. We have enough personal holidays etc to keep our travelling bug at bay. The reasoning is - if we're going to do this, rather than doing it in our house, we choose to do it in style. Bit like travelling first class over standard. I could travel standard but choose not to do so.

Just MHO but there is more chance of being hit by low flying pork than HMRC accepting this as an expense

**TykeMerc** · 28 October 2014, 16:04

Originally posted by LisaContractorUmbrella View Post

Just MHO but there is more chance of being hit by low flying pork than HMRC accepting this as an expense

Subtle but sensibly accurate summary. I can't see there being a reasonable argument to support it.

Offsite business meetings