Offsite business meetings

[Alan @ BroomeAffinity]

Offsite business meetings

If you wouldn't do it were it not for the tax angle, then you're in danger of letting the tax relief tail wag the profits dog imho.

[BolshieBastard]

After the Christmas Party discussion (below), I'd like to discuss something else that large consultancy companies do but contractors don't - namely the offsite.

I come from a consultancy background (when I was employed) so all this seems old and normal to me but... speaking to a contractor - they seemed surprised.

Every quarter, myself and my wife (the only two directors of the company) go away to a country hotel to discuss strategy. This is minuted and involves conversations like the state of the current contract, analysis of the business plan spreadsheet, discussion of financial documents e.g. profit/loss, balance sheet, future rate discussions, insurance options, website design, prospective clients, future plans etc.

We usually travel about 50 miles away, stay in a hotel, have the meeting, have dinner, stay overnight then come back the next day. We usually charge all of this to the company as a business expense.

Thoughts?

Thoughts? Well, what a load of bollocks really. And what has coming from a consultancy background got to do with it?

It really just sounds like what it is, a piss up with the missus under the guise of a business strategy "meeting" and an excuse to put it through the business.

Why open yourself to scrutiny if HMRC investigate? You're entitled to the £150 per director annual bash. Use that instead and stop trying to put disguised jollies through the business.

[tarbera]

Subtle but sensibly accurate summary. I can't see there being a reasonable argument to support it.

I was at an off - site with client company last week for 2 days in swanky hotel 500yards from where we all normally work

[Batcher]

I was at an off - site with client company last week for 2 days in swanky hotel 500yards from where we all normally work

I think if you meet up with other business people or at an industry gathering then there wouldn't be a problem putting it through the books but just the two directors having a jolly looks suspicious. Put it through as part of your annual £150 each spend as BB says and it will be fine.

As I said on a similar thread, we had a long weekend away but our accountant advised against claiming the hotel & travel as expenses. We were able to claim one nice meal with drinks if we discussed business during it and put it against our £150 each. We'll need to make it an annual thing now

[pacontracting]

I think if you meet up with other business people or at an industry gathering then there wouldn't be a problem putting it through the books but just the two directors having a jolly looks suspicious. Put it through as part of your annual £150 each spend as BB says and it will be fine.

As I said on a similar thread, we had a long weekend away but our accountant advised against claiming the hotel & travel as expenses. We were able to claim one nice meal with drinks if we discussed business during it and put it against our £150 each. We'll need to make it an annual thing now

This was the reason for the comment. My accountant says this is fine providing it's an event that you have to attend as part of your employment responsibilities and attendance at board meetings are considered part of a director's responsibilities. There were caveats mentioned in that it can't be overseas, can't be longer than necessary otherwise it falls into the remit of private travel etc.

My accountant doesn't deal with contractors that much though - mainly small / medium companies (not that that should make a difference). The consultancy comment was because this happened all the time with no BIK so didn't think anything of it until I mentioned it to another contractor and they had the same opinion as most on here - no way!

I'm not going to argue with my accountant (who is Chartered and so I would like to think he is advising me properly) - hence the question - but I seem to have the answer.

[tarbera]

So if you add pumping the wife on a dirty weekend as part of her job description its tax deductible ?

[Batcher]

This was the reason for the comment. My accountant says this is fine providing it's an event that you have to attend as part of your employment responsibilities and attendance at board meetings are considered part of a director's responsibilities. There were caveats mentioned in that it can't be overseas, can't be longer than necessary otherwise it falls into the remit of private travel etc.

My accountant doesn't deal with contractors that much though - mainly small / medium companies (not that that should make a difference). The consultancy comment was because this happened all the time with no BIK so didn't think anything of it until I mentioned it to another contractor and they had the same opinion as most on here - no way!

I'm not going to argue with my accountant (who is Chartered) - hence the question.

I'm assuming that when you mention the consultancy that it was a gathering of people working for the consultancy from all over the UK whereas you could quite easily have your board meeting in the house for the two of you. HMRC would probably allow a meal out at a nice local hotel for the purpose but not overnight travel & accommodation.

You could arrange it to coincide with a business related event though. I know contractors who used to book tickets to free industry events in London (but didn't bother turning up) so that they could put the hotel & travel through the books for their city break.

[Batcher]

So if you add pumping the company secretary on a dirty weekend as part of her job description its tax deductible ?

FTFY

[tarbera]

I'm assuming that when you mention the consultancy that it was a gathering of people working for the consultancy from all over the UK whereas you could quite easily have your board meeting in the house for the two of you. HMRC would probably allow a meal out at a nice local hotel for the purpose but not overnight travel & accommodation.

You could arrange it to coincide with a business related event though. I know contractors who used to book tickets to free industry events in London (but didn't bother turning up) so that they could put the hotel & travel through the books for their city break.

Or Devcon in Las Vegas

[TykeMerc]

I was at an off - site with client company last week for 2 days in swanky hotel 500yards from where we all normally work

Yes but are the client company a 1 man band with a wife and no-one else attending or a more complex company with employees and suppliers attending?

HMRC would argue the scenarios are drastically different as you're well aware. This isn't a mystery and acting like it's going to be OK with HMRC is either naive in the extreme or just trolling.