Opus bestpay umbrella - do not use it! It's highly toxic!!!!!

[whattheheck]

And it’s not up to this forum to take proactive action on anything - it’s for contractors to be the business people they say they are to perform due diligence on these umbrella companies.

Wow! That's just either lazy or utterly selfish, I'm sorry to say. A Forum dedicated to IT contracting and IT contractors and it is not up to this Forum to take proactive action on anything?

Why does it exist then?!... Some people are very good at performing due diligence and others are not. Timing is everything, in case you are too distracted to notice. There are contractors out there who do not have the means to do "due diligence" as you call it. They are too busy securing work, attending to the Client and so on. Due diligence might be something agencies should be doing, they get paid princely fees for recruiting contractors, so might as well get their arses in gear and do something. IT contracting is not just about catching contractors to fill vacancies, and then "give us our fat fee and thanks very much"...

Your comment is selfish as well... Let me give you a taste of your own medicine: Next time I see you crossing the road, I'll just say nothing and let you get your skull crushed under the wheel of that bus, shall I?!... I mean, it is up to you to perform "due diligence" and look both sides of the road, before you cross it, right?... Obviously, engaging with your fellow human beings is not part of your textbook, right?

Did you read any reviews before deciding to buy that washing machine you have at home? Whatever for?... It should be up to you to inspect the damn machine! It's called due diligence, right?

But... I mean... What sort of standards do we consider as acceptable in this Country?!...

Pitiful, I think.

[whattheheck]

Agreed.

Although, to be fair, people often join brollys because they don't want the hassle of running a business.

It's disappointing that some agencies are still steering people in to dodgy schemes.

Seriously?!... You can't simply conclude that, because you are not in possession of all the facts in order to reach an informed conclusion. You don't know the specific circumstances and particulars of people's lives.

I would not expect an IT contractor who is a carer for a disabled partner, parent, or close relative, to have the time to run a Ltd company for example. I suppose the same can be said of single mothers with a couple of kids to take care of... People's lives are very diverse, everyone is different and let's also consider that "running a business" is complex and there are tons of laws, rules, regulations and more... All to make it even more slippery and difficult. And not everyone is confident enough to do it.

Even the nature of some contracts makes it hard to "run a business"... It is the case with 12 hour shifts, night shifts, on-call duties, and so on...

Deciding to join an umbrella is not a license to abuse contractors, just because they did not or could not, or did not know how to run their IT contracting as a business. That's just wrong!

Best

[malvolio]

OK, so you were misled. However, getting net pay in your bank account of something over 80% of your gross after paying the umbrella 15% or so when the base personal tax rate at the time was 20% didn't ring any alarm bells?

Using an umbrella is perfectly sensible if you don't want a company of your own, but there is a point where ignorance of the basics ceases to be an excuse.

[DaveB]

Wow! That's just either lazy or utterly selfish, I'm sorry to say. A Forum dedicated to IT contracting and IT contractors and it is not up to this Forum to take proactive action on anything?

Why does it exist then?!... Some people are very good at performing due diligence and others are not. Timing is everything, in case you are too distracted to notice. There are contractors out there who do not have the means to do "due diligence" as you call it. They are too busy securing work, attending to the Client and so on. Due diligence might be something agencies should be doing, they get paid princely fees for recruiting contractors, so might as well get their arses in gear and do something. IT contracting is not just about catching contractors to fill vacancies, and then "give us our fat fee and thanks very much"...

Your comment is selfish as well... Let me give you a taste of your own medicine: Next time I see you crossing the road, I'll just say nothing and let you get your skull crushed under the wheel of that bus, shall I?!... I mean, it is up to you to perform "due diligence" and look both sides of the road, before you cross it, right?... Obviously, engaging with your fellow human beings is not part of your textbook, right?

Did you read any reviews before deciding to buy that washing machine you have at home? Whatever for?... It should be up to you to inspect the damn machine! It's called due diligence, right?

But... I mean... What sort of standards do we consider as acceptable in this Country?!...

Pitiful, I think.

If you take the time to actually look there is a vast amount of information on this site about Umbrella's, dodgy tax avoidance schemes and people who have been caught up in them and are now paying the price. The forums have provided a place where people can come to ask for advice, discuss their circumstances and in many cases work together to try and find solutions as a group rather than as lone individuals.

However, you do need to take a certain amount of responsibility for your own actions and as little more than a public talking shop the forum has no capacity to take proactive action in it's own right. It is able to provide a framework for individuals to support each other and provide advice and guidance when asked for but thats all.

As a contractor running a Ltd company you are the one legally responsible, and liable, for how that company operates and it's financial affairs. If you don't have the time to make sure this is being done in an appropriate manner then maybe you shouldn't be doing it at all. "I didn't have time" is not a defence in a tax tribunal.

[WTFH]

Wow! That's just either lazy or utterly selfish, I'm sorry to say. A Forum dedicated to IT contracting and IT contractors and it is not up to this Forum to take proactive action on anything?

Why does it exist then?!... Some people are very good at performing due diligence and others are not. Timing is everything, in case you are too distracted to notice. There are contractors out there who do not have the means to do "due diligence" as you call it. They are too busy securing work, attending to the Client and so on. Due diligence might be something agencies should be doing, they get paid princely fees for recruiting contractors, so might as well get their arses in gear and do something. IT contracting is not just about catching contractors to fill vacancies, and then "give us our fat fee and thanks very much"...

Your comment is selfish as well... Let me give you a taste of your own medicine: Next time I see you crossing the road, I'll just say nothing and let you get your skull crushed under the wheel of that bus, shall I?!... I mean, it is up to you to perform "due diligence" and look both sides of the road, before you cross it, right?... Obviously, engaging with your fellow human beings is not part of your textbook, right?

Did you read any reviews before deciding to buy that washing machine you have at home? Whatever for?... It should be up to you to inspect the damn machine! It's called due diligence, right?

But... I mean... What sort of standards do we consider as acceptable in this Country?!...

Pitiful, I think.

Here's a few clues (and in another thread you claimed to know about administrators on internet forums)
1. How much are you paying to use this site?
2. How much information is on this site to help you? (I've already provided links to many threads on here that are at the top of various sections that are there to help)
3. The forum is not just for IT contractors. It is for contractors in a variety of industries.
4. Contractors are supposed to be professional people dealing with businesses. We get contracts because we don't need guidance on everything, we act professionally, we carry out business relationships with our clients, we make decisions based on the level of diligence that we feel is appropriate for professionals to do.

As a group of grown-ups on the internet, there is lots of advice on here about what people should do. There's pages of recommendations on what should be done, where you should go for your business needs. The good businesses, the good advice, that gets recommended. People come on here and complain about businesses, but we do not have the time to check every single company that a contractor might use. We do not have the resources to do that, so instead of putting up lists of the bad people, we share the good guys. If you choose to ignore the advice on what to look for, if you choose to ignore the recommendations of who are good people to deal with, that's not our problem.

But to finish, your sick analogy of crossing the road fails on several levels.
If a person is crossing the road and it is safe to do so, they don't need to be prevented from doing so. They have checked and decided to cross, nothing is coming, they don't need to be stopped.
If a person is crossing the road and another person knows that they have made a decision to cross and can see the bus, then it is the right thing to do to be warned.

This forum warns you to look out for busses when you cross the road. It advises you where you should cross, but doesn't list every possible road in the UK and every crossing point. It doesn't tell you to avoid the number 57 when crossing the high street outside Specsavers.
It also doesn't know you are thinking of crossing the road unless you tell us. You might just be out for a stroll, you might be someone who is just watching others trying to cross the road.

We are not your nanny, we are not here to carry you.

[Matt FPSGroup]

Opus are not directly on the directory listing...but they are on there indirectly by association....

BES (Best Employment) are on the paid directory listing. Their office address is Drake House, Gadbrook Way, Gadbrook Park, Northwich, Cheshire, CW9 7RA.

Opus office address is Drake House, Gadbrook Way, Gadbrook Park, Northwich, Cheshire, CW9 7RA....strange coincidence that.

They are clearly different subsidiary operations of the same wider group.

To keep one step ahead of law enforcement, a key strategy for certain operators in recent years has been to change name regularly and open lots of fast churning branded subsidiaries. I've seen this time and time again.

I have to say I personally agree with a lot of the core points whattheheck has raised. We are seeing a huge number of contractors getting into very hot water through use of dodgy schemes. ContractorUK should be there to provide first rate trustworthy guidance and advice to the contracting community. I believe the forum and their articles do fulfill this function pretty well. However the paid for directory listings may well appear to be in some conflict with this function. There are no compliance checks of any kind undertaken in order to get a listing there (I know this for a fact as we have a listing). I would personally like to see all companies on this directory have to undertake some sort of due diligence process before being listed. I think that can only be a good thing.

[malvolio]

...snip... There are no compliance checks of any kind undertaken in order to get a listing there (I know this for a fact as we have a listing). I would personally like to see all companies on this directory have to undertake some sort of due diligence process before being listed. I think that can only be a good thing.

Yes it could. How much would you pay to ensure this happens? A couple of grand? Would you sue if CUK found you wanting in some way?

And would that charge be a minor inconvenience if it supported your multi-million pound questionable scheme advertising...?

And how many scheme victims looked here for advice and guidance before signing up? Those that ask the question are either clearly warned off or already have some connection to the scheme they are asking about.

[Matt FPSGroup]

Very valid questions but if the practicalities of undertaking such checks prove too much, then to stick to the core mission of being a "trusted source of information and news for contractors" then ContractorUK should really either:

a) consider not having the directory at all; or
b) clearly mark it as a paid for advertising directory

In it's current format without such advertising disclaimers, it could be potentially legitimizing and endorsing highly dangerous services. That is the core original point made on this thread, which as far as I can see, is totally valid.

[cojak]

CUK isn’t the trade body for umbrellas so I can’t see how they could provide a list of ‘accredited’ suppliers.

This kind of activity cost money (through subscription payment?), a certain amount of legal protection (to set up these accreditation standards), administration to ensure compliance (the spending of that money) and moral credibility that a trade organisation provides.

Think these things through people. Take responsibility rather than try to palm it off to someone else.

[cojak]

Very valid questions but if the practicalities of undertaking such checks prove too much, then to stick to the core mission of being a "trusted source of information and news for contractors" then ContractorUK should really either:

a) consider not having the directory at all; or
b) clearly mark it as a paid for advertising directory

In it's current format without such advertising disclaimers, it could be potentially legitimizing and endorsing highly dangerous services. That is the core original point made on this thread, which as far as I can see, is totally valid.

This however is reasonable, and I’ll speak to Admin and present this suggestion.