Ir35 2020

[northernladuk]

But when the public sector changes hit, the one public sector client I had just had a blanket rule for everyone, even though I was very clearly outside IR35. My cabinet-level MP didnt really care about my complaints. The simplest solution was just to stop all public sector work, as it was not worth the hassle, and there seemed to be little that could be done about it...

Well my experience was different. My PS client came around and offered outside albeit after I'd left before it hit. I've also since taken an inside gig at a council with a rate high enough to make it worthwhile.

I've taken my eye off the ball off the PS recently but I do believe the blanket approaches should not be allowed so hopefully will change.

Also remember many clients didn't understand the rules either and was as bad for them as it was us. We've got a year to work with private clients to fix this and being driven by profits they will be much more willing that Public bodies who seem happy to struggle even now to get the right people.

It's not something that's going to change over night and it's not something that can be fixed by rolling over and posting contracting is dead type posts.

[northernladuk]

Exactly - Big companies wont want the hassle of giving outside IR35 contracts in much the same way as they insist on using agencies even if you were referred by an existing employee

Its even made it to BBC Budget 2018: Contractors face higher tax and NI payments - BBC News

But that's totally incorrect and shows the nativity of many of the newer guys commenting with knee jerk reactions. Big companies are profit driven and cannot afford not to be able to get the skills they need in. They've got the clout and time to put a proper framework in and stick to it. They aren't constrained by highly complicated and constrained resourcing frameworks such as CL1 and the like.

It's going to be a fight and it will be messy I don't doubt but it starts with every contractor knowing the legislation and educating their clients. Something so many people don't want to or can't do. They just get scared when an announcement is made and start wailing.

[d000hg]

Wasn't the announcement that decisions on changes would be deferred to 2020 i.e. what the changes are is still up in the air?

[Cirrus]

Thankfully I should be retired by then.

You should be retired by now

[Mordac]

I totally agree with this ^^^^^

A truly independent contractor is a valuable resource for a client. Client's will make it work where they need to.

Where they don't need the independence, and need control , i.e. just bums on seats they want to be able to bin at short notice, they'll just declare, correctly, as inside.

The lessons learned in the public sector before April 2020 will only reinforce this.

The real worry is that clients (or more specifically, their HR numpties) may just decide it's not worth the aggro hiring contractors. A decent part of our "value" was in the fact that all HR had to do was phone an agency, and the rest took care of itself. Now they have to fill in a questionnaire which none of them understand, how well do you think it's all going to work out?

[jamesbrown]

Wasn't the announcement that decisions on changes would be deferred to 2020 i.e. what the changes are is still up in the air?

No, today was a decision; the announcement was that the PS changes would be rolled out to the private sector on 6 April 2020. However, there is a consultation (to come) on the precise details of that rollout. One obvious difference is that there's a threshold for application in the private sector (i.e. the PSC will remain responsible when their client is a small company in "roughly" the same terms as the Companies Act 2006, otherwise it will be the client's responsibility to determine status).

[northernladuk]

No, today was a decision; the announcement was that the PS changes would be rolled out to the private sector on 6 April 2020. However, there is a consultation (to come) on the precise details of that rollout. One obvious difference is that there's a threshold for application in the private sector (i.e. the PSC will remain responsible when their client is a small company in "roughly" the same terms as the Companies Act 2006, otherwise it will be the client's responsibility to determine status).

This consultation?
Off-payroll working in the private sector - GOV.UK

[TwoWolves]

The guy who got me into contracting in '93 said contracting was dead and went permie in '96. The bank he worked for was bought out and everyone sacked in '98.

We're not dead yet and I'm ready for a fight. Even the Tories have succomed to the civil service blob, we need a British conservative who actualy believes in the free-market-economy but I don't see any on the horison.

[jamesbrown]

This consultation?
Off-payroll working in the private sector - GOV.UK

Nah, the one they talk about in their response to that one

The government announced at Budget 2018 that it intends to extend the
reforms to the off-payroll rules. A further consultation on the detailed operation
of the new rules will be published in the coming months. This consultation will
inform the draft Finance Bill legislation, which is expected to be published in
Summer 2019. The new rules will be given effect from 6 April 2020.

[WordIsBond]

It's not something that's going to change over night and it's not something that can be fixed by rolling over and posting contracting is dead type posts.

Oh, let them moan about the death of contracting. Maybe they'll just go be permie somewhere and reduce the competition for the outside roles.