The PS, IR35 and GCloud

[TheFaQQer]

This is exactly what I did and how I see it now. There is plenty of work in the Private sector (for now). I find it a little bemusing the lengths some are going to to manufacture process the PS just won't use and attempt to stay. Can't help thinking if you are that desperate to stay in the PS then you must really be a pseudo employee and should be caught by this.

I'm not certain about your last line - some of my best rates have been in public sector, so I can see why there would be a certain appeal. However, that's irrelevant from April unless the rates are truly amazing.

[nucastle]

What's this though?

If you are not a one man band and you want to 'get around' the new stuff you basically have to either take on staff (and pay them salaries regardless of whether you have work) or take on sub contractors ...and then they would have the paye tax and you'd be doing rti etc.

Well that's what I'm getting at.

I'm not looking to 'get around' anything, but looking at it from another perspective which is given most of us ex/current PS contractors know how things work there, then what is to stop a few like minded contractors clubbing together, forming a consultancy, potentially taking on some salaried staff and going to market via one of these frameworks.

If there is some tangible walk out, and the Government attempts to procure outcomes/specialists in the way they 'say' they want to do it (yes, big 'IF') then maybe this is an opportunity.

The other alternatives/workarounds discussed on other threads are completely outside of what I'm suggesting, which on the face of it (not that anyone is giving any details) appear to just be artificial structures attempting to keep PSC contractors doing what they have always done.

[eek]

Well that's what I'm getting at.

I'm not looking to 'get around' anything, but looking at it from another perspective which is given most of us ex/current PS contractors know how things work there, then what is to stop a few like minded contractors clubbing together, forming a consultancy, potentially taking on some salaried staff and going to market via one of these frameworks.

If there is some tangible walk out, and the Government attempts to procure outcomes/specialists in the way they 'say' they want to do it (yes, big 'IF') then maybe this is an opportunity.

The other alternatives/workarounds discussed on other threads are completely outside of what I'm suggesting, which on the face of it (not that anyone is giving any details) appear to just be artificial structures attempting to keep PSC contractors doing what they have always done.

Good luck with that plan. My comment would be watch out for freeloaders as you do all the work.....

[nucastle]

Good luck with that plan. My comment would be watch out for freeloaders as you do all the work.....

Is the same not true of all the local consultancies who have embedded teams at HMRC/DWP? Newcastle has the likes of Orangebus, Indigo Blue and Opencast Software all doing the same thing.

[northernladuk]

Well that's what I'm getting at.

I'm not looking to 'get around' anything, but looking at it from another perspective which is given most of us ex/current PS contractors know how things work there, then what is to stop a few like minded contractors clubbing together, forming a consultancy, potentially taking on some salaried staff and going to market via one of these frameworks.

If there is some tangible walk out, and the Government attempts to procure outcomes/specialists in the way they 'say' they want to do it (yes, big 'IF') then maybe this is an opportunity.

The other alternatives/workarounds discussed on other threads are completely outside of what I'm suggesting, which on the face of it (not that anyone is giving any details) appear to just be artificial structures attempting to keep PSC contractors doing what they have always done.

I'm not to sure why you are still going on about this. If you want to do it go ahead. No point trying to convince us. Enough of us know that a bunch of contractors makes an awful platform for a service, the cost of setting this up, the risks of having all your eggs in one basket, then politics of the PS and so on to be highly skeptical so you aren't going to convince us. Time to do and not talk and prove us wrong. Take a look on GCloud, see what you can actually delivery and get started.

A smart cookie that can pull this off will already be working at it and don't need these changes to makemit happen. The fact you are doing this in response to the changes is to me a 'get around'. If it's possible why didn't you don't before. Now you are up against every other Tom Dick and Harry and trying to get the ear of the right people that aren't sick of hearing this so it is going to just get harder.

You are right. If you can do it it's a good idea. Time to just get on with it.

[northernladuk]

Is the same not true of all the local consultancies who have embedded teams at HMRC/DWP? Newcastle has the likes of Orangebus, Indigo Blue and Opencast Software all doing the same thing.

Difference is they got on with it at the right time rather than talked about it. Those are the ones that won the business BTW. Look at the number of suppliers in GCloud that didn't.

[eek]

Is the same not true of all the local consultancies who have embedded teams at HMRC/DWP? Newcastle has the likes of Orangebus, Indigo Blue and Opencast Software all doing the same thing.

Yep, they are just better at recruiting staff than HMRC for reasons I've never quite grasped. Mind you I've never dealt with an Orangebus, Indigo Blue or Opencast employee that I would actually employ, they are just Northern version of Indian bodyshops providing poor skillsets at prices slightly above said Indian bodyshops.

[nucastle]

I'm not to sure why you are still going on about this. If you want to do it go ahead. No point trying to convince us. Enough of us know that a bunch of contractors makes an awful platform for a service, the cost of setting this up, the risks of having all your eggs in one basket, then politics of the PS and so on to be highly skeptical so you aren't going to convince us. Time to do and not talk and prove us wrong. Take a look on GCloud, see what you can actually delivery and get started.

A smart cookie that can pull this off will already be working at it and don't need these changes to makemit happen. The fact you are doing this in response to the changes is to me a 'get around'. If it's possible why didn't you don't before. Now you are up against every other Tom Dick and Harry and trying to get the ear of the right people that aren't sick of hearing this so it is going to just get harder.

You are right. If you can do it it's a good idea. Time to just get on with it.

Nah mate, I'm done with the PS.

[northernladuk]

I'm not certain about your last line - some of my best rates have been in public sector, so I can see why there would be a certain appeal. However, that's irrelevant from April unless the rates are truly amazing.

And so was my rate and yes I can see the attraction but it's just another piece of the contractor pie. They weren't that good that I'd be making up all sorts of dubious schemes as an attempt to stay because it's all I know and scared of leaving the PS. You just have to shrug and carry on being a contractor. If you are that desperate to stay then you ain't a contractor.

[TheFaQQer]

I'm not looking to 'get around' anything, but looking at it from another perspective which is given most of us ex/current PS contractors know how things work there, then what is to stop a few like minded contractors clubbing together, forming a consultancy, potentially taking on some salaried staff and going to market via one of these frameworks.

There is nothing to stop you doing that. A question I'd ask is why you haven't done that before if you think that it's a good business opportunity to enable you to expand and build that consultancy (or is there a lack of opportunities being advertised that you think will pick up in the near future?).

The danger you face is that you have little to no experience of running a consultancy, which is different from running a one-person business, a lack of track record when the client says "where have you done this before", and the potential to have some one (or more than one) not deliver as much as they promised and you have to pick up the slack. If you can get past that, then it's a great idea and you should do it; if you can't then it's an awful idea.

Some years ago, three friends of mine and I looked at building more of a consultancy together, but it never took hold because some of us were more interested in the idea than others. It now looks like one of us is (to quote an agent) "off his game these days" and is struggling with the contracts that he does get - if we'd gone ahead then by this stage we would have ended up carrying him for a while.

Good luck with the business - I hope it does pay off for you, if you pursue that direction.