The PS, IR35 and GCloud

[nucastle]

And? Given that there is / appears to be a crack down on pulling those tricks (its explicitly included within the new questions) does it matter?

You either play the games and jump through the hoops your customers want you to pull or you don't... One way may get you a lot of work, the other won't....

Given that the current obsession with 'in house everything' for development projects under GDS then it looks like this model is not going away. In this regard, there is nothing secret other than knowing how the game works.

[northernladuk]

there is nothing secret other than knowing how the game works.

But there is th le rub. It's very difficult to find out and even more difficult to get a positive outcome.

[jonnyboy]

And? Given that there is / appears to be a crack down on pulling those tricks (its explicitly included within the new questions) does it matter?

You either play the games and jump through the hoops your customers want you to pull or you don't... One way may get you a lot of work, the other won't....

Eek, which question is that exactly? I did not spot it in the code.

[eek]

Eek, which question is that exactly? I did not spot it in the code.

There are ones towards the end regarding where the resources come from:-

employees, already known third party suppliers, other I can't remember what all the options were and what question it is....

[nucastle]

digital-outcomes-and-specialists-2-final-framework-agreement.pdf

This one presumably.

So to paraphrase the clause I'm looking at, you have to supply the offered services yourself, and not sub contract, unless the buyer has agreed to the supplier subcontracting the work. Essentially what eek said is being cracked down on.

[youngguy]

Digital outcomes isn't the silver bullet out of all this mess though is it. Some of the guys here are swanning around telling other they are on it and they are alright now. I despair.

I've heard that same and it is worth noting that no one (eg HMRC) has said there is a direct relationship between the framework and the inside)outside debate . People are assuming that DOS = outside along with G Cloud as it is deliverable based.

I'm not sure that will help if some ps manager is filling out the new RSS tool and starts answering yes to SDC type Qs.....

[nucastle]

I'm getting agents ringing me about HMRC jobs and stating the same, yet the manner in which the contractor delivers the services is exactly the same regardless of whether you are on DOS/CL1/G.Cloud etc etc - you are a contractor embedded in an agile team. The framework you got in on is of no interest to anyone actually involved with projects, nor is it of those doing the paperwork.

[northernladuk]

I'm getting agents ringing me about HMRC jobs and stating the same, yet the manner in which the contractor delivers the services is exactly the same regardless of whether you are on DOS/CL1/G.Cloud etc etc - you are a contractor embedded in an agile team. The framework you got in on is of no interest to anyone actually involved with projects, nor is it of those doing the paperwork.

Same as via GCloud? I don't think so. There is something you are missing and if there is a bod on site there will be a whole world of difference going on in the background. What they are supplying, how it's costed etc... Time to start doing some research rather than just guessing at what you see from your desk.

[MrMarkyMark]

I'm getting agents ringing me about HMRC jobs and stating the same, yet the manner in which the contractor delivers the services is exactly the same regardless of whether you are on DOS/CL1/G.Cloud etc etc - you are a contractor embedded in an agile team. The framework you got in on is of no interest to anyone actually involved with projects, nor is it of those doing the paperwork.

Why would you expect it to be?
They expect a BOS and work done, they have no interest how you have arrived there.

[jonnyboy]

I've heard that same and it is worth noting that no one (eg HMRC) has said there is a direct relationship between the framework and the inside)outside debate . People are assuming that DOS = outside along with G Cloud as it is deliverable based.

I'm not sure that will help if some ps manager is filling out the new RSS tool and starts answering yes to SDC type Qs.....

What? The Jasmine example is all about framework and work practices - You provide a product or service off site rather than a day rated bum on seat in front of a clients computer, and it clearly (currently) says using the tool, it will be outside IR35. And the GC or DOS framework will be the only real way to get the project delivery based work going forward in the PS.